Your Mama's Kitchen Episode 34: Tamron Hall
Audible Originals presents Your Mama’s Kitchen, hosted by Michele Norris
Tamron Hall Mother's Day has always been important in a big, big day for me. But this journey, 53 years on this planet and meeting so many wonderful people and so many wonderful women who shepherd, who guide, who love, who comfort, and who never walked into a hospital and walked out with a baby of their own. But they mother.
Michele Norris: Welcome to Your Mama's Kitchen, the podcast that explores how the kitchens we grew up in as kids shape who we become as adults. I'm Michele Norris.
Today we’re joined by the wonderful journalist and television host Tamron Hall. Her self-titled talk show has been on the air for five seasons, winning her two Emmys and, just recently, getting renewed for its sixth season. If you’ve ever watched her show, it's no surprise why audiences love her. She has a bright energy that draws people in– including her big name guests, but she also has a knack for tackling hard news subjects like incarceration and women’s rights abroad in an informative yet approachable way. This most definitely came from her extensive background in journalism, from reporting at MSNBC to hosting NewsNation with Tamron Hall, Deadline, and The Today Show. In our chat we learn something about her family’s core strength and the way they tend to stand up for their beliefs; From her grandfather staring down the Ku Klux Klan to her decision to start her own show when management decided to pull her off the air in her dream job at The Today Show. Tamron is one tough cookie and in recent years, she’s also proven herself to be a pretty capable home cook. She’s launching her own cookbook this year. It’s called A Confident Cook.
But before she became the glamorous, fashionable TV personality we see today, Tamron was a country girl from a small town in rural Texas, raised in a shotgun house by her mother, her grandfather and a community of women she considered to be mother figures. In this episode, how a TV star found her voice in part by watching the people she loved make their way over and over and over again when the path forward was not always clear.
Plus we learn how to make her version of the classic southern sock-it-to-me cake… she calls it a sock-it-to-them cake. All that, coming up.
ACT 1
Michele Norris Tamron Hall, I'm so glad you've joined us. I've been wanting to talk to you for a while.
Tamron Hall I am excited to be here and any opportunity to speak with you is an honor.
Michele Norris Oh, talk that talk.
Tamron Hall It's true. It's true. True.
Michele Norris We haven't talked in a while. It's been too long. I'm glad you're here. And I'm glad we get to talk about this, because I. I feel like I know you, but there's a lot that we're going to get to know, because we're going to take you back to that little town in Texas where your life began. And we believe at the show that we become who we are in part by what we hear and see and absorb in the kitchens of our youth. And if you would do me a favor and take us inside your mama's kitchen and tell us what it look like and what it smelled like and what you remember. Your mom was fairly young when she had you. Tell us about her and tell us about her kitchen.
Tamron Hall Maybe one of the surprising things about me that I have not shared, or at least I haven't shared a lot publicly: My mother doesn't cook. My mother never cooked. My mother's mother passed away when she was ten years old. So my mother's kitchen was my grandpa's kitchen. He did all the cooking, and his kitchen was a very, very small kitchen, maybe 300 square feet. I vividly right now can picture the tin can on the side of his stove where all the good grease was kept. Grease that was captured after frying bacon. And where I'm from, good bacon has a really hard, crunchy rind on the end. Almost a snap of your teeth if you're not careful. And so my grandfather would often fry up the good bacon with the really thick, crunchy rind that I didn't fully appreciate until much later in my life and, in his kitchen, he had what he referred to as his Frigidaire. We didn't have a refrigerator. It was an icebox. It was a Frigidaire. And I think that was something he got later in life, probably, a big purchase from Sears and Roebuck. That's what it was called back then. And that's what I was out here. I got to get this, Sears and Roebuck credit card. He had, a little table off to the side that was pressed against the wall with these rivets around the table. And for those who know, they know what I'm talking about, that old school diner style table with these green vinyl style diner seats. They were chairs, but they had this easy white to them.
Michele Norris And they had little padding in them.
Tamron Hall Little padding in the seat. The floor was linoleum, some of it cracked and unrepaired, but I always very clean and tidy. My grandfather raised my mother and her younger sister without their mother. My mother's siblings outside of my Aunt Annie were all old enough to be out of the house. So when my grandma, who was affectionately called Cuca, passed away in that home, it was just my mom and her, next oldest sister, Anezell or called Aunt Annie now she's evolved to Annie back in the country, she was Anezell now she's Annie. She'll get a kick out of me saying that. This was a shotgun house, as they call it, in the South. So you could look through one in and see the whole straight through. Although his house never I mean, they called it a shotgun house, but it never really applied. And I used to wonder about that with him, because right next to the kitchen was a sitting room. It had his La-Z-Boy, a sofa and a table that we never really used. My grandfather, what we call dip snuff. He used to dip snuff. For perspective, my grandfather was born in 1901.
Michele Norris So he would keep it under his, like in his, lower part of his–
Tamron Hall On the side of his lazy. Yeah, yeah. Lower part of his mouth. And he had a snuff little pot next to it.
Michele Norris You know, when you talk about shotgun houses, I immediately knew what you're talking about. They're common in the South, because you can see straight through and it creates a wind tunnel. And it helps keep the house…
Tamron Hall Mmm I don't know about that in Texas, because in Texas (laughs)
Michele Norris It was meant to try to help keep the house cool. But, you know, when it's as hot as it is in Texas, that might not work.
Tamron Hall A hundred and ten degrees in Luling, Texas. Those are my vivid summers there. But yeah, this little kitchen led to the outdoor backyard, which was, from my point of view as a kid, paradise. It was just this open green backyard, no fence, huge tree, I think. It was his heaven. It was a backyard heaven for a kid.
Michele Norris So in Luling, in that little house, was the kitchen in the place where everything happened.
Tamron Hall It was the place where once my mom decided that she needed to pursue a bigger life for us. My mom was a 19 year old single mom, and once she decided that it was time for her to leave the small town and that opportunities were would be more available, the kitchen became that first place we look for my grandfather. My grandfather was a pitmaster, so he worked at a grocery store in the back, and he did all of the barbecue and became very, very popular for, this Luling smoked sausage and his ribs. So he did big cooking outside of the home. And so when I would come back around 7 or 8 years old, once we moved away, we go visit my grandfather. And we'd always come through the kitchen to go look for him. And so it was the meeting place. It was the reunion place. It was, the reconnection of family. So that's where we'd find him in the kitchen. And my mother would always share with me early on in my life, my grandfather would sit me on his lap in the kitchen. And he had a little song that I vivid. I mean, he passed away when I was 19, but I can still hear it now. He had this little song and he'd sit on his lap and he'd say, ding, ding, ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding, and even like bounced me up and down. And that was his little charm song to soothe me or to make me laugh.
Michele Norris That's a beautiful memory. What was your grandpa's name?
Tamron Hall Louis Mitchell, senior.
Michele Norris A pitmaster you know, you paint such a vivid image, I can imagine him. Holding it down in the kitchen and keeping the family together.
Tamron Hall Yeah.
Michele Norris You eventually moved. You moved to Fort Worth, right?
Tamron Hall Yeah. Yeah, I moved to Fort Worth. My mother, went to my grandfather, who was very, very protective of me. In fact, he picked me up from Edgar B Davis Hospital, September 17th. I was born the 16th, though they let me out, I think the next day I went straight to his home.
Michele Norris You’re a fellow Virgo.
Tamron Hall I am a true Virgo. That's why my memories are so vivid, I think.
Michele Norris Uh huh, I see you.
Tamron Hall Yeah, yeah. You understand? And so, at some point my mother decided, as I shared, that it was time to really expand and bet on herself. And I'm not old enough to remember the conversation, but I heard it so much, it became like folklore. You know, you just hear this story of her meeting my grandfather one day at his job and him gassing up our gremlin. If those who remember, you know, you know, and I have a gremlin my mom and gremlin and saying to my grandfather that it was time for her to leave. And, and even when I think about it now, it brings tears to my eyes because I can only imagine this 19 now 20 year old whose father's pleading with her to stay and that, you know, they can figure it out here. And I'm sure now, looking at it from his perspective as well, this is an empty nest for him, and he's lost his wife and all these things. But my mother, left and, took me to Fort Worth. And our first place, that I remember was an apartment called Lee Highland. It's no longer, around. It was in Fort Worth, and the complex was filled with a lot of women. Very similar to her, a lot of family, similar to her. I remember I moved a lot as a child, which I actually, funny enough, don't talk a lot about, moved quite a bit as a child. And I remember that kitchen because it had this window, our opening where you can hand things over. But I don't remember any cooking because my mom didn’t cook. She did not cook
Michele Norris So how did you all eat if she didn't cook?
Tamron Hall We had an incredible group of women, aka my aunts, who all would, you know, cook dinner. You know, Sundays we went to church called Beth Eden Baptist Church. My whole family, once my mom moved to Fort Worth, all went to that church. So every Sunday, my aunt sister who was married into our family, she'd married my Uncle Rogers, we'd go over to my Uncle Roger's and my aunt sister's house, and she would cook anything that every. You know, she's the kind of mom that if five kids wanted five different things, she'd prepare five different things.If there was fried chicken, if there was meatloaf, if someone wanted… it didn’t matter, she was going to make it all. And then for the weekday, I was probably the very first generation of true fast food kid. And not in the way, you know, fast food now. Like, I remember going to Taco Bell before it was a chain. We'd got a Pizza Hut, and then on the weekends, I'd have huge family style meals. But no, my my mom. Never, she would say, enjoyed cooking. Never, really got into cooking. And then. My dad that God meant for me to have entered our lives. Clarence Newton, senior. They married and there became a wholesale change in what I view as a kitchen. My dad cooked every meal. Every single meal. Every breakfast, every lunch, every dinner. My dad was retired from the Army 30 years, and he was 27 years older than my mom, so he was much more settled. My mom went on to, you know, pursue her career in education while my dad really was the primary owner and, king of the kitchen. So it was my dad's kitchen that I remember most.
Michele Norris So your stepdad, Clarence, sounds like a lovely man. Amazing. And the fact that he cooked so much must have been part of the appeal, among many things, for your mom.
Tamron Hall You know, it was an appeal for me. I was like, mom, marry this man. I was like, eight years old. And so it took a minute for my heart to open to him. And I do think, to your point, a big part of his strategy was cooking in the kitchen. He could also grill, which is a rare thing. So now he comes in able to grill winning over my grandfather. And he's also able to cook and cook. He did and have a great kitchen of just joy and fun and it was just awesome.
Michele Norris You know, there are lessons that we learn in the kitchen. That sometimes don't have much to do with the food that's cooked there. Are there things that you learned about your mom, about your stepdad? Your dad? About your grandpa? Just in watching how they navigated life at the kitchen table.
Tamron Hall Absolutely. You know, even though my mom never cooked when I went away to Temple University, this was obviously before you could email or text someone. And this is predating, even before cell phones, even though I got a cell phone, I think the senior year in college, my mother would write me letters and mail me letters. And I get emotional telling this because I wish I'd kept them. She would write them on the paper towel from the kitchen. The Bounty roll of paper towels, because she was in the kitchen, and she would sit in the kitchen and she'd take a piece of paper towel. Clearly, Bounty does hold up to the commercial, and she'd write a note, you know, whatever was on her mind. And I would receive a check, from my parents and a letter, and it was folded in the Bounty paper towel. And so that tells me everything about what we're discussing. This central part of our lives being the kitchen. While her talent wasn't expressing it in the form of a meal, her affection and her care and it being a comforting space. You know, that's where she wrote these letters, you have to understand, when when I went away to college, we were friends, like my mother and I. She's a very strong woman, very much a mom. And I'm not your friend. But she was this first generation who kind of teetered the line between friend mom. And I say that in that I had great rules. And trust me, I lived under a house where there were rules. But because she was so young. And I was an only child at that time. You know, I remember playing volleyball in our yard because I didn't have a sibling. So she became this fill-in in many ways, and I became a fill in for her. I became her inspiration. You know, I tell people once I had my son, five years later, I haven't lost a single negotiation because you fight different when you're fighting for someone. And so she fought different because of me, and so I, I laugh now, she's 74 and she goes, I knew you were a baby. And I said, I knew you when you were a baby. But going back to that central point of the kitchen, in my mind, imagine, that had to be a place of calm, and I'm sure, a place where she shed tears that I never will know about writing these letters to encourage me to keep going and sending whatever it was they had to me.
Michele Norris Do you think that she used that, the paper towel, that piece of Bounty, because she also wanted to conjure up the kitchen in your mind?
Tamron Hall I think if anything, it was use what you have. Because love can come in so many ways, right? She could have gotten, you know, letterhead, paper from some drugstore. But my family going back to what you ask me, what did I learn? It is fair. Use what you have. Whether it's the meal, the repurposed grease that some would have thrown out in my grandfather's kitchen. I'll use what you have in my father's kitchen. My father passed away in 2008, and I've recently, announced that I have a cookbook. It's a love letter to him because I learned to cook after he passed away. But looking back at that, I'm making something good from what we have. And so my mother's letters to be on the paper towel. More than it being a deliberate decision. What makes it so beautiful? It was an intentional, right? It was. I'm going to write with what I have. And that is enough. Because it wasn't the paper. It's the words.
Michele Norris It didn't need to be on fancy stationary.
Tamron Hall It didn't need to be on anything. It didn't need to be on stationery, didn't need to be on anything other than what it was, which was what was in front of her, which is what she had.
ACT 2
Michele Norris So you do something that's very visible. A lot of people have jobs that their parents can't really see what they do, because they're working in an office behind a closed door. They're doing something. They're in a hospital. They're, you know, they're somewhere where their work is not visible. Your work was very visible, especially when you went back to Texas. And then later when you went on to The Today Show, you know, have your own show so your mom can see what you do. Yes. Is she still sending you notes or critiques or…
Tamron Hall The great thing is technology changes from bounty towels to real time text message. Oh, absolutely. My mother and I, we talk all day, every day. More than the bounty towels. She has a camera in my son's room that she talks to him through the camera. At least I installed it. My husband is aware, so I don't want to make it seem like my mom secretly put a camera in. But we have a Nanit camera it's called, and she is on the camera watching all day.
Michele Norris Does she watch him?
Tamron Hall Oh yeah.
Michele Norris Or did you just happen to catch.
Tamron Hall Her favorite thing to do now is to review the tapes like a referee. So she, she's retired. And as I've shared, my father has since passed away, and she, will sit in her home in Texas and review the tapes and find little nuggets of things. The other day he was saying something very funny, and she shared it to me. He's a very sensitive kid. He's a tough cookie, but he's also, he's a Taurus. And so he's very in his feelings and a little child knocked over blocks that he was putting together. And his teacher wrote me a note saying, you know, we're really trying to teach him to advocate for himself because he got very quiet and he didn't want to tell the kid that his feelings were hurt. And we were really trying to teach him to advocate for himself. And so I got him home that day and I said, listen, you know, if someone does this, I said, you can point and say, stop. So he starts practicing saying, stop. My mother overhears all of this on the end it because she's spying, and she called me the next day or the same day. I should say. I heard you guys. I couldn't stop laughing. But yeah, we talk all day. She writes me notes all day. She texts, talk all day, every single day.
Michele Norris Yeah, that's really a blessing. Has she helped you figure out how to, you know, you're giving your son. Lessons on how to deal with, someone else who's stepping into his space. Did you get those kinds of lessons from your mom, particularly working in network television and in entertainment, which is, you know, a sharp elbowed environment where you have to learn how to stand your ground a little bit?
Tamron Hall Oh, the lessons I got were well before network TV but prepared me greatly for network TV. Again, I come from. A world of folks who, if you don't stand up for yourself, you have nothing. My mother, and her siblings always shared with me. Again, going back to the folklore of the family, how like so many families, sadly. But it happened to ours. Where the Klan came to my grandfather's door.
Michele Norris And just just to be clear, the Klan that shows up with white robes and pointed hats.
Tamron Hall Yes, yes. And showed up to their home, after some incident in town, like people have seen in the movies or maybe even heard of in real life, because I sadly have other people shared this very similar story. And you're in the South and my grandfather has to stand there with his children and make that. Determination in that decision to say, none of these are going, you'll have to kill us all. And that's the world I come from. My grandfather was referred to as Mr. Mitchell by every person I ever saw. Talk to him and he could not read. I make my living with words he can't read. But I never, ever heard a person not call him Mr. Mitchell. Whether he was dressed for church in his Stacy Adams shoes, or whether he was in his butcher's apron with his hands. Soil from the day. I never heard anyone call him anything but Mr. Mitchell. At best. Somebody might occasionally, said Mitchell. But it was never Lewis. It was never casual. And so that's, you know, that's my fiber. That's my background. My mother, as a single mother, I never watched her do anything other than work hard. And she did not complain. She had a purpose, and she wanted me to very much understand that work is hard. No matter the job you do. If you own the store or you work in the store, it takes work. And I grew up in an environment of not suppressing one's feelings. My mother is a crier, she said. We make fun of her, but she's the first to cry about anything. We can't even watch a movie with her, she cries. But it was also one of great fortitude. Stiffen your spine, but don't let people break you, you know? And for me, I remember. Oh, boy. I think it was third grade. I was the only only child in our neighborhood, and I was a latchkey kid. And it's funny, on TikTok, latchkey kid is a very popular TikTok because then this generation has never heard of a latchkey kid because it's illegal.
Michele Norris Yeah there were some of us that were that were kind of feral. Yeah, we didn’t have a lot of supervision.
Tamron Hall I was definitely yeah. I came home from school, I was assigned, to walk in with the key that was attached to my bag or whatever, go in and lock myself in and wait for my mother to come home. And one day I was running home and going back to the kitchen. Funny enough, I, was running home from school because I was being chased by kids bullies. Don't know why. Probably something I said. Surprise, surprise. But it was got it got me in hot water and the door swings open. My mom's home. I'm like, wait a minute. You're not supposed to be here. You're supposed to be at work. Get out of the way. They're going to kill us. They're going to kill us all. Get out of the way! You know, my mom said, wait, what is going on here? And she sees the kids are. And now they see my mom. They're like, everyone puts the brakes on. And. Yeah, and these are, you know, times are very different. Bullying is not fun at any age and in any era, but it's a little different. I certainly believe now with social media and some of the other pressures. So this was just not to, to to turn it into a just but it was, a lot less scary certainly, than things you see today, but nevertheless terrifying to me. At the time, my mother said, what's going on? Oh, they're chasing me and they're mad at me. And my mother said, you will never run from someone. You're going to turn around and you're going to tell them, I'm not running anymore. Period. And she looked me in my eye and she said you know face them or face me. But in life you don't run. You don’t. And she loves to say I was scared of nothing after that. And so I just it's changed my my point of view. Even at a young age. You have to face things, even the difficult things. And moving into network world all these years later. I can't say that I faced it down every time. Being a black woman. Being a woman. Being the one black woman. Being the first black woman after 60 years of The Today Show to actually be called in and hired to anchor that show on a weekday. Years prior to that, there's a lot of self-deprecation, laughing at things that weren't funny or approaching conversations without looking square in the eye because you know that it was not going to be received. In a positive way, not because the message was aggressive, but just because the message was from you. But at some point when the time was right, finding a way to make it known that you like your grandfather, like your mother who was 19 and like all of the aunt, sisters and aunties, I was going to bet on myself and I was going to stand my ground. Because when it's time for you to show your fibers, you can't hide them. They'll burst from your skin. I tell the kids that I mentor now, you know, if you were raised by rocks, you're not going to roll. You're bad, but you're not going to roll.
Michele Norris And I'll say it does something to your insides. It calcifies you. It just eats away at your soul.
Tamron Hall And I didn't want that. I was raised in a joyful environment my whole life. Oh gosh. Talking about kitchen. It was raucous. It was laughter. It was dominoes. It was fun. And so as as tough as the folks are who raised me, they had joy and fun. And so when people ask me, even after I announced that, well, I didn't announce it. Someone else announced that I was leaving my prior job before starting the talk show. They said, oh my gosh, how are you not upset? How are you not this? I said, listen. My grandfather was a sharecropper. That's hard stuff. I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out. My mom left with a tank of gas and her child is on national TV.
Michele Norris You know, you hear that old adage a door is closed and windows open. And when things don't go your way it's basically paving the way for your next blessing.
Tamron Hall I believe that.
Michele Norris I do too, and I also believe in never letting anybody steal your joy. Because if you feel that if you feel your joy slipping away you no longer can access joy. You need to take that seatbelt off and get on out of there because…
Tamron Hall I love that, I love that.
Michele Norris You never want anyone to take that from you. But the step you take after that, it's not like the blessing comes up and knocks on the door. It says not knock your blessings here. You usually have to get up and dust yourself off and go find it. And in reading a little bit about you, I. You know, I knew that you very quickly. To develop an idea for your own show. It doesn't happen here. I'm just going to, plant my own garden over here. What I didn't know is that your mom played a role in that. And then she told you that you had people who were watching you. As I understand, she said to you, people are watching how you will order your steps right now. People are watching how you will react to this. So you better figure it out. Not just for yourself, but for the people who are watching you.
Tamron Hall Absolutely. She did. And I thought to myself in that moment. And you know this, having had great success in this business that we are in, how often young people come, they. It took me a long time to process like, oh, you're a legend of like I am, but you see me, I'm still seven year old Tamron running from, you know, Sheila Fireside. You know, exactly like you don't see yourself as others do. And I think that's a blessing when you are able to not, Catch the vapors of your own success. And so I when people would say that to be your young women, would come. Oh my gosh… At that time, it was an awakening of who I am, what I mean to them. And I said to myself. If they see me and my mother said this, you know, if you don't get up, what chance do they think they have? In that moment of recognizing that someone. Through my being moved out might feel, oh, this industry's in not going to let me in. There's no chance. Look at Tamron Hall. Look what? Remember her? She kept her head down. She did great, great, great ratings. She did this. And look what they did to her. And I never wanted that to be the story. I never wanted you to run into me at a store and say, remember her? That was her. And I said to myself, in with my mom, I don't know what this return is going to look like, right? But I know there's a return. So I immediately that day focused on the return versus the revenge. I focus on the reset and that was important.
Michele Norris You had a vision.
Tamron Hall And a vision.
ACT 3
Michele Norris We're talking to you in the spring, which is the season of lilacs and cherry blossoms and the season also when we honor our mothers in a very special way. And that holiday on the second Sunday in May. Mother's Day, and I understand the elves have told me that Mother's Day is something that you go all out on. Like Mother's Day is almost like Christmas for you. It is. Is that.
Tamron Hall True? It is. It is, and it is. Twofold because I have, truly, the mother that God knew I needed. And gave her the child that she needed. And it's this relationship of mother and child that is so incredible. And our bond and our journey together, this young, young, young woman. And now, my dear, dear, dear mother, who is 74 and my friend and my rock, but I was a non-mom for 48 years. Over the course of my life mother figures have become so important and my motherhood is not defined by womanhood. And I tell people that all the time. I have a dear friend who, when I got pregnant with Moses, she doesn't have a child, and she's likely going to go through this journey without being a mother. And she said, I guess I'm going to lose you to all your mom friends now. And I said, that will never happen because my womanhood and my woman are different things. I have aunts, and when I went to Philadelphia, you know, to college. And I'd never been away. Patty Bean and Clochette took me in, two friends. Mom's right and became my mother. Figures, working at names.
Michele Norris I love these names, Patty Bean and Clochette?
Tamron Hall Oh, yes! So for me, Mother's Day is this expanded conversation honoring those people in our lives. Who are the comforters? They are the huggers. It is more than the person who enters your life as the mother on your birth certificate. You know, I had a mom many years ago. I wrote this piece because I was really struggling with feeling, you know, Newtown had happened and so many people and my colleagues, they would go on air and they'd say, a parent's worst nightmare. And I know what they mean by that now.
Michele Norris You mean, the shooting at Sandy Hook.
Tamron Hall Yeah. It's like a parent's worst nightmare. And I felt that there was a belief that, well, because you're not a mom or a parent, you don't understand and yes there’s a unique line.
Michele Norris You weren’t a parent at that time.
Tamron Hall I wasn't a parent at that point in time. And by the way, if I'd stayed at The Today Show would have been the only non-mom because I had become a mom. And I've been in newsrooms and meetings where people would say, oh, well, you're not a mom. You don't get or you're not a parent, you don't get it. So this shrinking down of your adulthood because you don't have a child or somehow this carelessness or, you know, I watch Newtown, I report it, and now I go home and I don't care because I don't get it, because a kid doesn't live with me. And so I wrote about this understanding of caring as a single woman. And I, and I said one of the phrases I never cared for was the having a child made me a better person line, and everyone says it for whatever reason. But my response was always, so you're just going to be shitty the rest of your life unless you have a kid. Because if a child makes you a better person, if you don't have the kid, what does that make you? I'd like to believe I'm going to be a good person, no matter if I'm a parent or not. And so I wrote that you're not a bad person because you don't have a child, and you're not automatically a good person because you do have a child. So Mother's Day has always been important in a big, big day for me. But this journey, 53 years on this planet and meeting so many wonderful people and so many wonderful women who shepherd, who guide, who love, who comfort, and who never walked into a hospital and walked out with a baby of their own. But they mother, I love it. I love the opportunity with my platform to do something that had never been done in the years of morning TV. When I remember they said, what's your mom's favorite recipe? I was like, my mom doesn't cook, you know? And now I can have a show where that entire hour I say, yes, this is Mother's Day, but I am expanding that definition because it doesn't have a box. There are no boundaries to it, just love.
Michele Norris I love that. And even for the mothers who did have children, but still mother other people.
Tamron Hall Other people, my mother, other… hundred percent.
Michele Norris Dispense wisdom. Dispense love. Put your hand on the shoulder when you need it. Yeah, I just love that.
Tamron Hall Yes. And that's why I love the holiday. I mean, don't get me wrong, dads are great too. But the mother part of it, I'm smiling right now because even though I had, you know, my grandfather and my father who raised me and wonderful men around me who poured such love and fortitude in me. There is nothing like having those mother figures. Tell me it's going to be okay. Show me it's going to be okay. And teach me what to do to make it okay.
ACT 4
Michele Norris Now listen we like to gift our listeners with a recipe or something that tastes like home for the people that we talk to. What do you want to share with folks?
Tamron Hall I have a sock it to them recipe in my new cookbook called A Confident Cook. In the South we call it sock it to them. But because we had a little cheeky fun with it, sock it to them. When my mom tasted it, I cried. She had her coffee with it. It was great and wonderful. So we have a sock it to them cake and my upcoming cookbook, it's available for preorder. It's officially released September 3rd. It's called A Confident Cook. It is a love letter to my father, who I don't have a, I don't regret a lot of things in life, but he always loved cooking more than teaching me to cook. He loved just me watching me eat. And I did not learn to cook. The only recipe he probably walked me through was right before he was ill. I was a low person on the totem pole, and I had to work Thanksgiving. He walked me through a sweet potato pie so I didn't have the heart to put it in the book. But I do have a sock it to them cake in my cookbook that is home. That's sweet, but not too sweet, because home is sweet and sometimes is not so sweet. But it's always comforting and soft and inviting. And you can have it day or night because there's no place like home.
Michele Norris It's funny, I remember sock it to me cake not sock it to em cake. So tell me.
Tamron Hall Yeah. We changed the name. Yeah, yeah. Sock it to them cake is ours.
Tamron Hall Yes. It is a whole...
Michele Norris Or Sprite or something like that?
Tamron Hall Like this. Yes. It's a whole traditional ... we say sock it to them cake, but it has the coffee cake softness, some little scant sprinkles, sugar on it. I will make sure you get the full recipe. I can't give away too much. But it's a delicious way to, I'll eat it for breakfast. I have a sweet tooth, but any time of day. And it just reminds me so much of the cakes that going back to my grandfather's kitchen, that would just sit on. I'm lucky enough to have this beautiful glass thing that now sits in my home, and we always have sweets in, but my grandfather had the little plastic one that was stained, and you'd have to turn it to.
Michele Norris Tupperware that you turn the top?
Tamron Hall The turn. I don't even know if his was Tupperware brand, but it was a little plastic container and the edges were all worn and you'd have to turn, and it'd become so cloudy that you couldn't quite see what was in it. But you could trust that it was good. It's that kind of cake that it...
Michele Norris Kept the cake moist. Did he just have a little handle on so he can take the cake to go visiting somebody?
Tamron Hall It had a handle on it. Yes, if you want to give it. And we used to do cake, sales at our school and at our church. So that plastic one. And now I have a beautiful glass one. But it's what is inside that matters, not the cake pan.
Michele Norris Yeah. I'm like your mom. I like a piece of cake. Like that is really good. I don't drink coffee anymore, but with a nice cup of tea and warm milk a little bit.
Tamron Hall Oh, I love you. Your goals. Now, for me, I'm trying to wean myself off of coffee, but we thought it was a great little, head nod to that cake tradition that is very rich in my family.
Michele Norris I road test all the recipes. So I'm going to let you know how this goes when I try this one out.
Tamron Hall Oh, I will be. I love you so much. And please, thank you, know that is an honor. I've been listening and wanting to be a part, so I feel very blessed and grateful for this moment.
Michele Norris Much love to you.
Tamron Hall Bye!
This was a lovely conversation. It felt like a love letter to all the different types of mothers out there, the ones with their own children and the ones who have not physically given birth and yet are mothering others in important ways. The women who guide, who love, who shepherd and who hold us up in life’s storms. And as Tamron’s story showed us, this gift can come from anyone in the community: grandparents, aunts, neighbors, teachers and friends. Through them, we find strength and wisdom, and in Tamron’s case, it was part of how she learned to become her own best advocate. I loved the throughline in her story. From her mother telling her to stop running from the bullies to Tamron teaching her son how to stand up for himself on the playground. As we celebrate all the mothers in our lives this springtime, let’s make sure to show them and remind them of the lesson’s they’ve taught us. In fact, let’s do that all year because their contributions are too big to be celebrated in a single day.
Now, if that sock it to them cake sounded good to you, you can sock it to the people in your circle. You will find the recipe for that delicious confection on my Instagram page at Michele underscore underscore Norris, that’s two underscores. AND you can also find it at our website, yourmamaskitchen.com.
Before we go — we want to hear from YOU. Our listeners have been sharing stories about THEIR mama’s kitchens…
My grandma's kitchen. Her kitchen was different. I remember her kitchen being about self-sufficiency. Canning food, old Texas recipes. Cooking from the garden. Sometimes we would play a competitive game of marbles or dominoes, but it was more strict kitchen. Not as much laughter, but lots of intellectual and deep, deep conversations. Regardless of whose house I was in, the kitchen was the place of comfort. The heart of the home. The place where I felt safe, listening and opening up to others and learning from others as well.
We’re opening up our Inbox for you to record yourself and tell us about your mama’s recipes, some memories from YOUR kitchen growing up, or your thoughts on some of the stories you’ve heard on this podcast. Make sure to send us a voice memo at Y-M-K AT Higher Ground Productions DOT com… for a chance for your story and your voice to be featured in a future episode!
Thanks for joining us — Hope you’ll be back next week because you know us – we are always serving up something special. Have a great week. See ya next time and until then…. Be bountiful.
CREDITS
Michele: This has been a Higher Ground and Audible Original. Produced by Higher Ground Studios.
Senior producer - Natalie Rinn.
Producer - Sonia Htoon.
Additional Production support by Misha Jones.
Sound design and engineering from Andrew Eapen and Ryan Kozlowski.
Higher Ground Audio's editorial assistant is Camila Thur de Koos.
Executive producers for Higher Ground are Nick White, Mukta Mohan, Dan Fierman, and me, Michele Norris.
Executive producers for Audible are Nick D’Angelo and Ann Heppermann.
The show’s closing song is 504 by The Soul Rebels.
Editorial and web support from Melissa Bear and Say What Media.
Talent booker - Angela Peluso.
SPECIAL THANKS THRESHOLD NYC.
Chief Content Officer Rachel Ghiazza.
And that’s it - goodbye everybody.
Copyright 2024 by Higher Ground Audio, LLC.
Sound recording copyright 2024 by Higher Ground Audio, LLC.
