Note: Text has been edited and does not match audio exactly.
Sam Danis: Hi, I'm Sam, Audible editor for all things sci-fi and fantasy. And I am beyond excited to be interviewing Felicia Day about her new Audible Original, Third Eye. It's a funny, witty fantasy adventure with so much heart, and it's performed by an incredible full cast that includes Felicia herself, Sean Astin, LilyPichu, London Hughes, Wil Wheaton, Neil Gaiman—the list goes on. You might know Felicia from her various film and television projects such as Mystery Science Theater 3000, Eureka, and Supernatural, among others. And of course, she has a legendary internet presence as the creator of the web series The Guild, the founder of Geek & Sundry, and as a game streamer. She is also the author of two other titles, You're Never Weird on the Internet (Almost) and her guide to creativity, Embrace Your Weird. In other words, she is sort of prolific. Thanks so much for taking the time to chat with me, Felicia.
Felicia Day: I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for talking with me.
SD: Yeah. I’m going to dive right in. I really enjoyed listening to this project, and you've called Third Eye your baby—the one project you've been trying to get made forever. I'd love to hear more about its origin story and how it came to assume its final form in audio.
FD: Yeah. Third Eye—I mean, the idea that I would play a psychic in a shop surrounded by magical people—came to me back in 2014 or '15. I had wrapped up The Guild in 2012, which definitely defined me. I mean, I did that show for six years. I was the showrunner, I was the star, I wrote everything all by myself, and everybody was like, "What's your TV show?" And I had all this pressure on me, and I was like, "Well, the only thing I could think that would be fun would be to do a multi-cam sitcom with supernatural creatures. That's a great idea."
So I ended up writing a pilot and a pitch for a single camera comedy. And I had just recently sold my company to Legendary Entertainment. And so they were like, "Sure, we'll take this out with you. We're going to sell this show." And we pitched it, and it did not sell. And I know now ... it's very common. You do not sell 90% of what you pitch in LA.
But unfortunately, I didn't know that at the time. And also, I am not the kind of person who could just kind of be like, "Oh, great, I'll get over that and go to the next." No, when I commit to a project, it is my passion—I have to see it through. And unfortunately, I couldn't see it through in the way that I wanted back then, and it was very devastating for me. I didn't write for several years, to be honest with you. It was also a question of burnout, making hundreds of videos a year … that kind of thing.
SD: That's fair.
FD: Yeah, It contributed to the burnout. So anyway, in 2018 or '19, I was approached by Audible to do a meeting, and I was like, "Hey, I have this project, and I just want to make it." And thank goodness that they decided they wanted to do it. And they were like, "Great, you can do it like a TV show. You can hire some writers, break it, write it like a TV show, have a room, and then we'll put it out there in like a year or two." Cut to COVID, which starts just when the contracts close. And I'm like, "Oh, nobody can write." My writers were not available. COVID hits. And I was like, "I'm writing this by myself."
So, it was quite a journey, and it took many years. Because of COVID, everything was delayed, but I got it done. And 450 pages later—I think we got it down to 400 pages—hours and hours of content, all the cast … We made it. And I can't tell you how proud I am of it, because it truly is exactly what I would want to make, way beyond what it would've been as a TV show.
SD: That's amazing. Such a labor of love, and that you finally got to see it through after all that time. I think COVID derailed a lot of things for a lot of people.
FD: It did. But actually, it was good for me, because it unplugged me from this sort of sell machine, which is like, “Come up with some ideas that'll please other people, and then change them until the people who are being pleased are happy.” And I'm like, "That's not the way I write." And that's what I discovered over writing this show and planning it out, and all the character arcs and all the rewriting and the jokes, and collaborating with the Audible executives who gave amazing notes.
But also, it just really taught me that I'm not the kind of person who is that kind of writer. I just want to make my thing, and I want to make it the best thing I can. I want to devote all my time to it and send it off in the world as good as I can make it, and then move on to the next thing. So, it was a wonderful gift for me. And now, the things I'm working on, I'm fullhearted. I'm full focused. And that's what I want to do for the rest of my life. So Third Eye was a real turning point for me as a creator. And I hope people feel that in that every detail is ... every “I” is dotted and every “T” is crossed.
SD: That's awesome. And I think your dedication to the story really shows in the end product. It's just such a fun listen, and congratulations on getting it done.
FD: Yeah, thank you.
SD: In terms of the story itself, it's not your typical “chosen one” story. In fact, the main character, Laurel, who you play, fails pretty spectacularly (laughs), drawing the ire of the magical community. So I love the idea of this chosen one who kind of fails to live up to their destiny. Tell me a little bit about the character and what inspired her.
FD: Yeah, I noticed that my natural tendency to do projects is to read a ton and immerse myself in a genre or a type of storytelling, and then be like, "Well, what have I not seen before? What excites me that rebels against the norm?" And that kind of was [true] with The Guild, because I wanted to show people female gamers are ... You know, people game together at all ages. And a woman can be the center of this story. It's organic to people's reality. And, you know, a couple of other projects I'm working on now, I realized retrospectively, are, "Oh yeah, I'm just rebelling against the tropes of this genre."
"The things I'm working on, I'm fullhearted. I'm full focused. And that's what I want to do for the rest of my life."
This one particularly is like ... You know, I've read every fantasy novel … That's my passion. I would rather read than watch TV, to be honest with you. And for this one, I'm like, "Gosh, there are a lot of kids who are just like, 'You're special.'" And I was like, "Well, what if you're special, but you fail? Like, what do you do after that happens?"
And that really ties into my personal story, because I was a kind of violin prodigy, playing when I was two and a half. I was, you know, a wonder kid. I was homeschooled, and I practiced a lot, and I got a full scholarship, and was like 16, and then [with] a symphony. So, you know, I had a lot of expectations heaped upon me. And then I quit to become an actor, which is like ... I don't know exactly how that's working. I'm working on the connective tissue of that in therapy, but I did it.
SD: (laughs)
FD: And that feeling of being a failure in a sense really resonates with me. When I was researching, child prodigies often have this come up when they become an adult—they're like, "Oh, you're not special anymore because you're just doing what other people have done and they caught up with you," you know? And how do you deal with your whole being, your whole sense of self, being "special," and then you're not quite so special anymore? So it was kind of something that resonated with me as a person but also fit perfectly with this sort of "undermining the tropes of fantasy" thing. So yeah. And in developing that out, I really was able to follow this character through a really interesting arc of healing in a way.
SD: That's awesome. I love that some of the inspiration kind of comes from your own life. And that leads to my next question. What was it like to finally perform and give voice to this character that lived in your head for so, so long, especially given that she had a little bit of you in her?
FD: It's really interesting because all the characters, I do have a little bit of me in them. You know?
SD: Of course.
FD: The Guild ... has this an ensemble of six people. And the funny thing is that off camera—because we would do the webcam shot, right?—I would read all the characters, and with Third Eye, you know, and we did have the opportunity to have actors acting with each other, especially the ones with romantic arcs—I thought that was really important.
But often, there would be characters who are not there to read. And I would read all the parts, so I was like, "Oh, I'm just doing the same thing again," reading everybody's parts. (laughs) And yeah, it felt very satisfying to give some healing to this character because she is in such a dark place.
And this is a comedy. There're fart jokes. It's almost broad comedy sometimes, but at the heart of it, everybody's got an issue. Everybody is working through stuff, and people are there for each other, even if they're a-holes to each other.
SD: (laughs) I love it.
FD: Yeah. And so, that arc of bringing somebody to a better place, creating a family around her at the end is really ... I don't know. That's something that's really important to me. And I just love being able to have that whole journey for her as a character. And performing her was ... It's like second nature. I spent so long with these characters. I didn't have to think about like, "Oh, this line should be read like this." No, I've written these lines.
SD: Yeah.
FD: I know how this should sound. I'll just tell the director, "Hey, can they read it again this way because it's not the way that it's in my head?"
SD: That's awesome. And in terms of the rest of the cast, we mentioned a few at the top. Sean Astin is a very un-suave vampire; the hilarious London Hughes, who’s just so funny as a kind of raunchy faye.
FD: Yeah, she's great ... You know, a lot of the characters I wrote with people in mind—or at least I had archetypes—like Sean, Neil Gaiman, of course. I was like, “Can you please do this as a favor?” You know, you never think they're going to say yes. And Wil Wheaton, I 100% wrote the part for him, knowing that he'd do it because he's my friend and we collaborate a lot. But London was someone I had no idea [about]. I had all the other main cast people in mind for Lily and Wil and Sean and Neil. But I was like, "Okay, we don't have a Sybil. She needs to be brassy, out there, kind of glamorous but also kind of raunchy and underhanded, but also full of heart. And she needs to have an accent."
I wanted her to be British or Australian or whatever. And my friend Jonah Ray, who I worked on another show with, became the director because he directed me on camera, and I was like, "He's great." And he also has this amazing ear. He has a music podcast, and he's very audio-friendly. And so, he was like, "I know this standup I worked with one time, London. Listen to her." And I went to YouTube, and I watched 30 seconds. I was like, "Oh my goodness." It's like I wrote the part for her. And it's truly like that. She embodies the character in a way that’s even better than I wrote it.
SD: Yeah, she's amazing. This is the first time I've heard her comedy as well, and yeah—great, great performance from London.
FD: Yeah.
SD: I hope to see a lot more from her too.
FD: She just wrote an autobiography, and then she has a Netflix special that she's already done, and she has a new one coming out. So, yeah. She's like one of those people who it’s just like, wow, why doesn't everyone know her?
SD: Yes, exactly. So LilyPichu plays this teenager that kind of comes into Laurel's life unexpectedly, and they have a connection throughout the story. I won't reveal too much. LilyPichu's character's name is Kate, and their relationship morphs over the course of the story from strangers to kind of like Laurel taking her under her wing. Maybe there’s a little contention between them at certain points, but I love the bond that organically formed between these characters with connected futures. Was it important for you to portray that strong female friendship in this story? And what are your thoughts on portraying female friendship and companionship in general in the sci-fi and fantasy genre?
FD: Absolutely. It was definitely a goal of mine to have a healthy mentor relationship between my character and a younger character. I think that, especially in Hollywood, I'm older comparatively—you know, if you're in your late 30s or early 40s, you're considered only a mom in Hollywood. You suddenly flip, and you're just the afterthought. And I see that a lot. And I don't even think it's personal—it’s just the way we're all raised, where boys are in one line and girls are in another in kindergarten, right?
Being a homeschool person, I don't really ever feel like [that]. Why would you see me differently? I'm the same as you. And especially after I had a daughter, reading all these stories to her, seeing not only the stereotypes that are portrayed, but the older she gets, the narrative in fiction—and the world—is [saying] that older women need to step aside for younger women to thrive. There’re evil stepmothers, there’re authority figures. And mothers need to disappear or die, [creating] orphans. And I get it, but at the same time, I don't know if that's actually the way the world needs to work. And I certainly don't think it's to the advantage of younger women that older women can't have a relationship with them that would help them navigate what they have navigated in a male-dominated world, right?
SD: Yeah.
FD: You know, I wasn't like, "Oh, wow, this is going to be a feminist scream." No, but I just wanted a healthy relationship where this wounded person can be healed by having a connection to a younger person. And they both heal each other. I wanted that caring. And I also wanted a character my age to be the focus of something but also not have to be the only focus. You could share focus, right?
SD: Right.
FD: And I wanted for people to have that. Also, mentorship is really important. There's nothing better than when I see somebody and I'm like, "I would like to take you to lunch and just give you advice." I do it a lot, you know.
And whether they take it or not, I'm just like, "I just want to be here in case you have the idea that you want to ask somebody a question." I've been through so much, especially in Hollywood, and I want to help other people not make the mistakes that I did, or avoid the problems that I encountered, or maybe overcome them a little easier. And so, that sort of parenting thing came more to fruition in the writing as my daughter got older, and I saw her sort of become a person. You know, Sybil and Laurel's relationship as well is sort of another female friendship that is close but has some issues. But they're always there for each other.
And, you know, that's what we could ideally want. Nobody's perfect. Everyone's not for everyone. And that's what I tell my daughter when she is like, "I don't like this kid at school." I'm like, "Everyone's not for everyone." But somebody will always have somebody. And I think that's kind of the heart of this story. No matter what kind of failure you think you are, there will be people in your life to care for you and love you. And that's probably enough.
SD: I love that. Yeah. I think that really comes through with this kind of group that ends up working together and living together in Third Eye, a little bit of a cast of misfits. Definitely, they all have their own things, but, yeah, it really comes together as kind of a found family story in a way.
FD: Yeah. And that's something that's a running thing in my work. You know, as an isolated homeschooler as I grew up, I would never have friends. I was always an outsider. And then I noticed, I'm always gathering the misfits together to feel like they belong, because we should all feel like we belong, and who are those other people to reject them? These people are awesome too, right?
SD: Right. I kind of had a question along that line. You have such a storied history on the internet, especially for, I think, carving out a space for nerd culture and community online, from making your first web series to Geek & Sundry to streaming. What do you love, and what do you feel is important about forming those connections online? Are you excited as the online world kind of continues to evolve into new mediums?
FD: I do—I'm even active on TikTok now, and I'm like, "Oh." And I was resistant for a while, but I'm like, "Oh, well, everybody has their voice," and it's really important to get your voice out there. It’s like a sketch that you do that you share just with your friends. You know, mass audience isn't something that I love. And, in fact, my most popular years were my most uncomfortable because then people who don't really know you as a person start knowing you. And you're not a person—you’re just an object. You know, I look at Madonna or [other] famous people, and I'm like, "Do I think about them as a person having issues? What are they picking for breakfast?" Like, no, you kind of just separate from them.
SD: Yeah.
FD: And for me, the wonderful thing about the internet is my Discord, which has a couple of thousand people, maybe a couple of hundred super active people, and I'm like, "Oh, if I meet them on the street, I'm meeting a person who I'm like, 'Yeah, I know you.'" Or the people in my Twitch channel … I have up to 1,000 people every time I stream. And that's not a huge streamer, but it's enough—if you are there with me hours a week, we're kind of friendly. It's not true friendship; they're not picking me up at the airport. But at the same time, it is a sort of friendship, and it makes me feel like I belong, and I'm doing the right thing, and I'm creating community where people can connect within that community in a more realistic, real way.
"'Everyone's not for everyone.' But somebody will always have somebody. And I think that's kind of the heart of this story. No matter what kind of failure you think you are, there will be people in your life to care for you and love you. And that's probably enough."
If two fans of mine meet, they're going to have a connection that might ... I've had people get married because they like my work, and who are best friends because they like my work. That's a wonderful thing. We are in a very scattered world. And if we don't have a centralized place that we can meet people, how do we meet people and form those bonds? So yeah, it's important to me. I love the internet—I just love it.
SD: Yes, that's awesome. And I totally get that. I think you're helping people feel like they belong somewhere. And I say this speaking as someone who did fantasy fanfiction (laughs) on Live Journal back in my teenage days.
FD: I did too.
SD: There's a space.
FD: That's how I started, way before you, probably. I was in the Ultimate Dragons on Prodigy, which was pre-internet, and I wrote Fanfiction set in the Ultima Universe where I went into bars and kicked people in the face.
SD: Amazing.
FD: It's the best. And you never know where you'll go with that creativity, but if you're just there, that's fine too.
SD: Yeah, absolutely. So, just going back to the story real quick, I think what's interesting about hearing the story in audio is that we can't rely on visuals, you know? And specifically, we can't rely on visuals for the magic.
FD: Yes.
SD: No beams shooting from fingertips or ethereal lights or anything like that. In a way, it's sort of like DND, like a theater-of-the-mind type of experience. But with this being an audio production, you had sound effects to help convey the story, which I think were super effective. Did you kind of have an audio vision as you started writing this project about how it would sound from that technical perspective?
FD: I certainly had to think about it every step of the way and in every rewrite. When I got the production schedule from Audible, I was like, "What are you talking about? Why do we need eight months for post?" And then when I got into it, I was like, "Oh, yeah, we need all of this time."
That's something I really appreciated about the process and how much work and personnel—crew and people and talent—it took to finish this in a way that is just like ... I couldn't even imagine the attention to detail we would put into all these effects. And that really comes down to Matt, our Audible executive; Clamor, the production company producers; Jonah, my voice director, and me; and then Mumble, who did all the post work, like going back and forth and refining every scene, especially the opening, which was kind of the hardest thing. Because the beginning of anything is the hardest.
SD: Oh yeah.
FD: It was a big magical battle. And you're right—we have no way of showing people what's happening. And so, we don't want to bore them with a bunch of sound effects where people can't see what's going on, but we need to convey what's going on. We need the stakes to be real. We need the emotions to be there.
And, you know, the back and forth of like, what should portals sound like? Should it sound like this? Should it sound like this? And the different iterations and the soundtrack. Every single moment was pored over, and that's after all the acting is recorded and the takes are selected. And I was rewriting till the last day, taking out words or pauses. So it was a wonderful collaborative experience, and it required a lot of work.
One of the things you have to ask yourself is like, “Why is this an audio? How can I make this easy for a person to understand what's going on?” Because if you're confused, then you're out of the story, right?
And Neil Gaiman, who is absolutely brilliant, he is the narrator. And so, along the way, you just can't not have that narrator in this format. I settled on a narrator to be able to get us from scene to scene, and to be able to describe those scenes that we can't act out effectively. And also, to add a bunch of humor.
SD: Absolutely. (laughs)
FD: Yeah. It was almost intimidating to record Neil because he's so good. And I'm like, "He's reading my words." And sometimes, he'd be like, "Hmm, that doesn't work." And I'm like, "Let's change it! Let's change it, Neil." And then, he did some improv as well. I think people do not realize what an actor he is. And he is funny. Some of the tangents [he] would go on ... a lot of it—I would say 90%—is scripted, but 10% is Neil just throwing in asides. And man, it was hard not to include every single take of him. He says "crab hand rolls" somewhere in it, and I literally had them edit out him saying "crab hand rolls" into an MP3. And I swear to God, I'm going to [find] somebody to mix it into a techno song because it's just so … Well, I have the MP3 here. I don't know if you could play it.
SD: Oh, we could definitely play it.
Neil Gaiman: Crab hand rolls. Tiny little horses. Nipples and trousers. Crab hand rolls, tiny little horses, nipples and trousers.
FD: I had them take those words out. (laughing)
SD: I mean, how do you not?
FD: Tiny little horses, nipples. I swear to God, I'm just doing it for the crew. Like, I'm just going to remix it for the crew. I'm going to start to learn how to spin to make that into some kind of tape.
SD: Oh, you've got to. There's just begging to be some autotune in there.
FD: Yeah.
SD: Yeah. And having the narrator is helpful direction, I think, for the listener, but also a little bit of comedic relief in kind of those tougher moments. And he does such a great job. I think it was a great choice. It feels really organic in the story.
FD: Yeah, it was a dream. I emailed him not thinking he would say, "Yes, of course," because it's a very ... You know, it's not just a cameo. It was a couple of days, two to three days of recording. I was like, "He's not gonna do this." And he's like, "I'm gonna do it. Not because it's a favor, but because it's good." I started crying. (laughs)
SD: I imagine I would too.
FD: You never know. Like, you never know if what you wrote is good or not. I could have rewritten this thing for 10 more years, you know, but you're just like ... You've got to let it go. You gotta move on. Just to have any outside validation—you’re one of the first people I've talked to who's listened to the whole thing, and I'm like, "Wait, you've listened to it?"
SD: I have, yeah.
FD: Does it work well? Yeah. It's just very exciting.
SD: It's so good—yeah, I thought it was. It's suspenseful; it's funny. It's just got a lot of heart, and I think the passion you had for the project really comes through throughout the whole thing.
FD: Thank you.
SD: Yeah, I can't wait for Audible listeners to hear it. I think they're really going to love it.
FD: Yeah, I hope so. I mean, it's a long journey, you know? It really is. It's a season of TV or just a book that's enacted. Like, you could think about it either way. I think that when the performances came together, you're just like, "Oh, this works." You never know. You just never know. And again, this is a newer format, but I can't not just do something new. I literally can't. I mean, I should be thinking of my next audio project, and I'm working on a stage play. I'm like, “What are you doing, Felicia? (laughs) Can you not pick a lane?” No, I can't.
SD: Don't pick a lane. Don't pick a lane. It's too much fun seeing what you come up with next.
FD: What is she gonna do next? Who knows? I don't.
SD: That's what I was going to ask, too. Could you see yourself doing some more audio projects in the future? Audio only?
FD: Yes, I totally could. Like, I've already sworn off Hollywood writing. I really have.
SD: (laughs)
FD: If something gets optioned into something, who knows? I would rather not be involved. But maybe—it depends. But at the same time, I had such bad experiences writing draft after draft, of really cool projects being rejected over and over again. And I'm like, "Oh, this is amazing." And quite frankly, you know, having an executive give me notes that I'm excited to implement was not something I experienced before working with Audible. So I will say thank you, Matt Patterson, and thank you, Erin Hilliard, who were people who had a lot of input into the script, helping shape it, but never to the detriment of my own vision.
You know, like, Hollywood's trying to please their own vision—I get it. But if you write a book or, now I understand, work with Audible, that's not going to happen. They're trying to make what you came up with the best possible. I can't thank them enough for that gift—to know that, yeah, you don't have to be guarded against everybody's input. Feedback can be helpful.
So I would love to do another long form audio project. I love it. I have a graphic novel that already will be coming out in a while. And next year, like I said, I have a musical I'm working on. But those are all in process. So who knows? I would love to do another long form thing like this, because it's just great to be able to live with something and release something that's a little bit longer. As a queen of short form, I'm like, "Oh, let's go the opposite. Let's have a marathon."
SD: Yeah. And I think the challenge will be not speeding through this superfast, because that's what I did. (laughs)
FD: Oh wow.
SD: Couldn't stop listening.
FD: You couldn't stop listening?
SD: Yeah.
FD: That's a lot of audio. Well, that's wonderful. What a compliment.
SD: Yeah, I loved it. It’s really addictive, and you kind of … you want to know how it all turns out. You want to make sure everyone ends up good.
FD: Yay! Yeah, I wanted to make sure every chapter had a cliffhanger. You know, that's one thing I learned. But then at the end of the piece, there's no cliffhanger, so you'll be satisfied.
SD: Yeah, it feels like a nice self-encapsulated story. So getting back to a little bit of what we touched on before, you're a parent. You have a daughter.
FD: Mm-hmm.
SD: And you've shared your highlights and challenges of parenting as a professional, as a nerd, as a professional nerd. (laughs) I myself have a 21-month-old daughter.
FD: Oh, that’s hard. That's the worst year. One to two? I would not relive that. I literally am like, "No. No, thank you. One is enough. I will not live one to two again."
SD: Yeah. It's a lot of fun. And then there are moments that … (laughs)
FD: Yeah.
SD: Yep. But, yeah, I find that as a parent, one of the hardest parts is kind of retaining that part of myself, like the gamer, the writer, the all-around nerd, when I'm literally responsible for keeping this small human alive.
FD: Yeah.
SD: How do you manage that dichotomy? And does having your identity kind of tied into a lot of your work help in that sense?
FD: I think it makes you more ruthless with yourself, and it's made me a better parent to myself, being a parent to someone else.
SD: Yeah.
FD: So I will say that I think a lot of toxic behavior, especially as women, we're taught that we're kind of at service to other people. And when you're completely at service to one person, and you're like, "Oh no, I'm disappearing because I have no more bandwidth to take care of everybody," then you're like, "Okay, I think maybe I need to back it up and take care of me too."
SD: Yeah.
FD: As a former workaholic, I've let a lot of things go, and it's been to the blessing of my life. You know, I was so burnt out, I couldn't write for years because I didn't have ideas … I was just coming up with things to make videos and release them that week, you know?
SD: Yeah.
FD: And that's a way to be. But it wasn't making me happy. And yet, I couldn't get off there until my health, physically, was so not good that I had to do it for my daughter. And then, you realize, "I'm doing things to protect myself only for this kid. Why don't I do things to protect myself for me?" And so, it really is the wreckage of your life when a child enters it. I make an analogy like, okay, you order something off Amazon, but you didn't measure right. And so, you get a dining room table that is three times as big as you thought it was. And so, you literally have to look at your life and be like, "What pieces of furniture can I get rid of to fit this in here? Because I literally can't fit anything in my living room anymore. I just have this table." But when you get rid of those other pieces to make room for this big old table, you're like, "Oh, okay, this is a better room now."
SD: Right.
FD: And I can kind of work around this room in a way that ... Yeah. So I don't know where this analogy is going, but anyway, it almost is easier to just start from zero and be like, "How can I build myself up?" And that's really one of the reasons I wrote Embrace Your Weird. I literally was like, "I don't know who I am anymore. Without my work, who am I?"
SD: Yeah.
FD: I'm paying attention to this kid, and I don't know where I want to go. I don't even remember who I was, and I don't know what to do day-to-day. And I certainly don't know how to create. And so, working through this journal, it was almost like a personal project for me, but working through every chapter, dealing with all the issues that held me back before—like procrastination and perfectionism and anxiety and all these things—writing them down and sort of getting them out of me during that time in my life rebuilt me in a much more functional way.
"If I make something like Third Eye, it might take years, but it's something I'm putting my whole heart into, and that makes me happier."
So I would say that, yeah, especially when kids are super young, it's hard. And you might as well just kind of turn the key and be like, "Okay, give myself 15 minutes at night, and if I get more than that, it's a bonus." But just know that the groundwork you're laying with that child is going to serve you for the rest of your life with them. They'll be a more stable, happy person if you're able to make room for them. Especially when they're forming who they are. Now my kid's six, and she's going to school full-time, and it's like, "Oh, wow, I have my days back. I don't know what to do with them."
But I've prepped myself to be able to work in a way that I'm not bringing toxic things into my life anymore for the sake of achievement or other people's admiration or fame or whatever. I'm doing things that I want to work on because I know they're genuinely connected to my heart.
This phase of my life, whatever I make—I might not make 1,000 videos a year; I might not produce other people's shows—but if I make something like Third Eye, it might take years, but it's something I'm putting my whole heart into, and that makes me happier. So, long story short, yeah, you're destroyed by a child, but you can put yourself back together in a way that I think is healthier ideally.
SD: Yeah, absolutely. It's like you kind of have to choose those parts that are worth bringing back in or, you know, assess if there are new parts of yourself that are more worth exploring once you have that kind of time, I gather, for yourself. So that brings me perfectly to my last question, which is about your book, Embrace Your Weird. You kind of encourage listeners to do just that. What advice would you give someone trying to find a creative outlet for their own kind of passion project, their own baby—that project that you just keep hacking away at and can't seem to get out of your head?
FD: I mean, you have to get the blocks that are ... Why are you not doing it? Why are you not doing that project? I have things that just take a long, long time. Like, there's a certain genre that I'm reading right now that I read like 100 books. I've read 100 books in the last year.
SD: What is it, if I can ask?
FD: It's LitRPG.
SD: Oh, yes.
FD: I have notes, a note file, where every so often I'll be like, "Oh yeah, that's a good idea.” And I add to it. And I'm not ready to write this thing yet, but I have a main character, and I have a problem, and I have a setting, and I have some monsters ... It's probably not going to be my pièce de résistance, but I want to write one of those books because they're fun.
SD: Oh, yeah.
FD: And I read two to three a week. And I'm just like, "I want to do my version of it." Again, it's not going to revolutionize it. But at the same time, I threw myself into the genre, and I love it so much. I can't stop reading. And I'm like, "Well, this is a focus. I'm interested in this." And if I just gather along the little, you know, snippets that I capture as I'm reading, maybe one day I'll have enough to start something—but it could be years from now. Who knows? And so, that's kind of how I work. I throw myself into some kind of genre or something. My graphic novel—I can't talk a lot about it; it's going to be out in 2025—but it is a genre that I literally immersed myself in for a year because I was bored, and I couldn't sleep, and I needed to read something dry at night. And then I came up with something wonderful.
So, yeah, you gotta back up and be like, "Why is it my passion project? And is it tied to something personal?" Because a lot of times, if we think we have a passion project, it could be externally motivated, and that's the problem. For years, I tried to come up with my TV show. And it was Third Eye—that was it. But when I tried to come up with another one that would be more Hollywood-friendly, I was just blocked for years. And it was because I was thinking about it in the wrong way. I was thinking about, "What's this project that's going to please other people and be successful?" and all these things. And I'm like, "Well, that wasn't my passion project. It was a project that would please other people and make them passionate."
SD: Right.
FD: That's not it—that's not the key to finding something that unlocks you as a person. And, you know, Embrace Your Weird is that thing. I kind of am like, "Go to your past, go to your future, and then go to your present. And then, here are a lot of things that block people, you know. Here are exercises," and you just journal and you doodle and you ruin the book. And you get to the point in the end of the book, “What's that project you want to focus on?” And that's really the definition of the book, like, going around gathering all bits of yourself and trying to get in touch with who you are so that you can settle on that one thing to pitter around on.
And, again, it doesn't need to be tomorrow that you do it. It just needs to be something where you're like, "I'm settled." That's what I want. I want to build a treehouse. I want to write a novel. I want to write a play. Or I want to sculpt something. It just has to be something where you know that this is organic to who you are, and that's the reason you're doing it. And I think that's a lot of our problem, including mine for years.
SD: That's great. I love that advice—write for yourself, create for yourself, and, hopefully, others will enjoy it too.
FD: Yeah, the great thing is, we're living in a time you can release things directly to the audience.
SD: Right.
FD: You know, and it doesn't need to be ... Your hobby does not need to be your profession. My brother, he has a day job, but his passion is hiking. He has these other passions, and I'm like, "Great. You know, you're very happy. You created a world where you could do the things you love, but they're not your job." That's not for everybody. You don't need to turn every hobby into your profession like I do, but that's the way I roll. It could be you; it could be somebody else. (laughs)
SD: Right. You don't need to have a dream job, but you can have your dreams.
FD: Oh, that's beautiful. Hey, put that on T-shirt.
SD: Oh, yeah. Doing it now. (laughs)
FD: Okay. Good. I'll order one.
SD: Well, awesome. That wraps up my questions for you. Felicia, I want to thank you so much again for joining us. I had such a good time talking to you. Third Eye has just been such a delight to experience as a listener, and I know our listeners and your fans will agree. And Audible listeners, you can find Third Eye as well as Felicia's other titles right here on Audible. And thank you so much again.
FD: Thanks a lot. Thanks for having me.
