Rep. Katie Porter’s memoir teaches us how to hold the powerful to account

Note: Text has been edited and does not match audio exactly.

Tricia Ford: Hello, everyone. This is Tricia, an editor here at Audible. And today I get to talk with Katie Porter about her new book, I Swear: Politics Is Messier Than My Minivan. It's an honest, inspiring, and laugh-out-loud funny memoir about what it's really like to serve in Congress, particularly for a single mom. Welcome, Katie. Thanks so much for being here.

Katie Porter: I'm glad to be in conversation with you.

TF: To kick things off, I know that you've had a career journey, that you've been a lawyer and a college professor. What led you to politics?

KP: I never thought of myself, even as I was nearing the end of my first campaign and being sworn into Congress, as being a politician or going into politics. I thought about it as I wanted to go to Washington to make policy. And door after door, job after job, opportunity after opportunity, there was always some reason that I just wasn't quite right. I didn't have enough management experience. I was overqualified. My kids were too young. I didn't know the right people. And after Donald Trump was elected and the chance I had to go to Washington to work on the Hillary Clinton transition team on housing policy, obviously, that was a transition that didn't happen—I talk in the book about having to return all of the DC winter clothes that I had bought to the store—I decided to make my own opportunity.

And so, for me, running for office was really about wanting to make policy, to make government work better. And having tried all of the ways that didn't involve having to put myself personally out there in a campaign, and having all of them leave me without opportunity, I really came to the conclusion that I needed to make my own, and if the doors weren't going to open for me, I was going to yank them open. And that's really what launching the campaign was about.

TF: You talk about not fitting in and growing into your identity. What was that like when you first arrived at Congress? And where do you think you are right now in that journey?

KP: Well, there's definitely conventions and norms. There is an establishment in Washington, and there's a kind of accepted traditional way of doing things. And that way of doing things is really designed by and works for the people who have traditionally been in politics. And that means men, that means people who are older in life, that means people who often have a lot of wealth, either from their prior career or from their family. And that's how a lot of the conventions in Washington work.

"An uncomfortable silence is the sound of victory. Ask a question. Then stare into your victim's soul as if you were going to reach in and rip out the answer."

It also was really designed around people who could be, and want to be, very partisan, spending their time attacking Democrats and attacking Republicans because that's sort of the nature of rising in the party system. And I didn't fit into any of that. I represent a swing district in Orange County right now, you know, Democrats, Republicans, Independents. I flipped the seat from a Republican when I won in 2018. And I wasn't interested in being the best Democrat I could be or the best freshman. I was interested in being the best fighter I could be for the policies that I cared about, for consumer protection, for climate change, for opportunities for our kids, for better housing policy. And so I really looked around for opportunities to do that and realized that how we question in hearings was this really potentially meaningful opportunity. And people were not taking it seriously, not using it to its full effect.

TF: And where do you think you see yourself in the journey? How much more evolution is there for Katie Porter?

KP: I started questioning in hearings, particularly the first hearing that kind of went viral, I was questioning JPMorgan Chase Bank CEO Jamie Dimon. And I asked him about how a teller working at his bank, in Irvine, California, where I live, how that person should make ends meet, because they weren't being paid enough to be able to afford an apartment and food and childcare. And I had this hypothetical budget, but really grounded in real numbers, and a real apartment listing we'd found, and a real job listing from JPMorgan that we'd found. And I went through that and I asked him, "What should she do? She can't make ends meet on what you pay."

And the moment went viral. I think a lot of people often feel like the CEOs of corporations and big corporations don't understand the real realities that their workers face. And when I finished with the hearing and I went around the rest of my day, and the clip started to take off and be posted all over social media and TV, several of my colleagues very graciously said, "You know, that was terrific. That really got a lot of attention. Good for you." But they also said, "How did you think of that question? How did you think to ask about an employee?"

And that moment, the realization that people in Congress don't often think about the very folks who elected them, I think that has very much stayed with me, and I think there's a lot of work and a lot of need for the organization, the institution of Congress, because we love democracy, because we love our Congress, we need to push it to better see the voices that need to be lifted up. And I think that I'm not satisfied with where we are and how we do that in government. But I think there's more work to be done. And I'm running for the Senate to represent California, as Senator [Dianne] Feinstein is not running for reelection. Our Congress is not where it needs to be in terms of really fighting for the people who send us there.

TF: You are known as being very good at holding people to account. Do you have advice for others? Is there a secret to standing up to bullies? Sometimes bullies are people in positions of power. What would you give an everyday person advice on how to do that?

KP: Powerful people are used to getting their way. And CEOs usually are never asked to explain, why, for instance, they make hundreds of millions of dollars while their employees, their customers struggle to put food on the table. So, I think first is recognizing and accepting that not only is it okay to ask powerful people tough questions, but that's part of what comes with having power, is people should be questioning, "How are you using that? You have a lot of responsibilities and a lot of abilities as a government official, as a Cabinet secretary, as a CEO, to make a difference. And are you actually using the powers that you have to make a change?"

And so I think first is to really feel comfortable that it is okay to question power. And I think we see this a lot, and I've certainly experienced this a lot in Congress: A lot of the witnesses show up and they're just shocked and sometimes dismayed that actually we are asking them tough questions. And you want to ask questions that are fair. You want to get answers that are meaningful. But, you know, when I asked the Centers for Disease Control director during the early part of the pandemic to make COVID testing free, he gave an answer and I said, "But that's not yes or no. I want you to use this law to make COVID testing free. Will you do it?" And he gave another answer. And I said, "That's not good enough. People need free tests. Will you make COVID testing free?" And it actually took me three or four times of asking him that before he said, "Yes." And that was just to use a law that was literally written for this exact situation.

So, I think it is hard, it is sometimes lonely. Powerful people are used to, like I said, getting off the hook, and getting their way, and having people afraid of offending them. But the real point of having power, particularly power that's entrusted to you by voters, is that you will use it to fight for what needs to be changed. And if you're not willing to be a fighter, if you're not willing to push for a better America, then I think you're in the wrong business of politics.

TF: That is a big part of your power. You're not confrontational. You're kind of educational. And you're famous for your whiteboarding. There's a chapter in your book, “How to Teach Anyone How to Whiteboard About Anything.” And I know we're in audio, so you can't demonstrate, but this is your famous skill. And I do think power of persuasion is something we could all use. What tips would you give for people who want to whiteboard their family or their coworkers? What would you recommend we try?

KP: In the book we have some sort of interstitial little two pages that are actually whiteboards themselves, where we give some information, some fun stuff. And one of them is “How to Whiteboard Anyone About Anything.” And we go through five steps to do it. And then we show an example of a whiteboard that I had to use when my son, Paul, who's 14, was trying to negotiate a raise for his chores, for his weekly allowance. And so I think the most important thing is to actually start by really being sure what you want the person to do. And so in the situation with Paul, my son, I wanted him to realize that he was actually being paid more for his chores than most American workers. And so he needed to have an appreciation for that. So, you have to think and really start with figuring out—you're not just taking an Expo marker and yelling at someone—you really need to figure out, "Do you want them to do something? Do you want them to take an action? Do you want them to admit something? To make a promise?" And then start with that. So, work backwards.

"I think that humor actually makes you a more effective representative. It's one of the ways that we connect with each other as people."

I think the second thing is, particularly with a whiteboard, let the whiteboard do the work. When I was a teacher, I didn't write every word that I said in lecture on a whiteboard. I would use the whiteboard when I needed to help people follow along, when I needed to hold them to account. I used to ask questions to students. I would ask this really great, I thought, really important question. And I'd get to the end and the student would say, "Can you repeat the question?" So, I think part of what the whiteboard can do is to help keep the witness or the person you're questioning on track.

The third thing is, this is good advice I got from my mother. She said, "Somebody is going to be in charge. It might as well be you." And so somebody is going to be in control of this conversation, or this argument, or this debate, and the whiteboard is a way—as well as your pace, your volume, how you pause—you can really control the conversation using those tools. So, one of the best tips here is only ask a question if you actually want an answer.

The fourth step, I think, is the easiest but also the least used, which is don't fear the silence. And I say in the book, "An uncomfortable silence is the sound of victory. Ask a question. Then stare into your victim's soul as if you were going to reach in and rip out the answer. Wait for it." I think often, when someone's floundering, when they look uncomfortable, we want to fill that silence. But ask your question, look them right in the eye, and wait.

And then the last question goes roughly to the first point that we were talking about with what's the point of having power. Accountability is a virtue. I say in the book, "You have a whiteboard. They have excuses.” I think if you get clear in your head that you have the right to ask this question, and that an answer—a straight, honest answer—would improve the situation, whether it's your family or your workplace or our country, then I think you can really go into the questioning with a confidence that's going to deliver answers.

So, in the sample whiteboard in the book, we show that, actually, Paul's allowance works out to an hourly wage of $18.75. I put in there the questions I would ask him, which is, "Paul, do you think your chore of doing laundry is equal to the labor of harvesting vegetables in the hot sun? Of scrubbing floors in a mall?" I say, "You know, worker exploitation is a real problem. You're not being exploited. Do you want to donate your allowance in excess of the minimum wage to a food bank?" And so I think that's a great example of really walking him through why I have the position I have, which is that his allowance is not going up.

TF: Did he take that answer willfully?

KP: Oh, he's still doing the laundry, and he's still only getting his $7.50 a week.

TF: Okay. I mean, there's a lot of other fringe benefits, I'm sure, to his living situation [laughs].

KP: Yes, like, "You have clean clothes."

TF: Exactly. Exactly. And this makes me think of another section of your book, where you go over your Katie-isms. I can read off a few of my favorites. I don't have an absolute favorite, but one of my favorites is, "The problem with being a know-it-all is that you really have to know it all." And the other one that I really like: "Tasks without a deadline are just dreams." Do you have a personal favorite? Is my first question about the Katie-isms.

KP: I would say that the phrase I probably use the most is, "Buy the ticket, take the ride." It's not only handy for me to use sometimes with my kids or with my staff, but they also use it back at me. And I think the real idea here is that when you undertake something, whether it's being a mother, or being in Congress, or we decide we're going to try to squeeze six meetings into an hour in the Capitol, and then the staff say, "I don't think we're going to make it to the last meeting. We're going to be late." And I say, "Buy the ticket, take the ride." Like, "We said we were going to do this, and we're now going to have to go do it. You can't get to the top of the line when it's your turn to get on the ride and ask for a refund. You have to really commit and do it. So, my kids will say, "I want to play soccer." And then after a tough practice, they say, "I think I'd like to switch to piano lessons." And it's "Buy the ticket, take the ride." So that's probably the one I use the most.

I definitely think that the sort of funniest example I use in here was, people think of me as this kind of whiteboard ninja, and it doesn't always go that smoothly in real life. My staff and I were filming a video and they bought a new whiteboard for me that was a particular size. And I really was trying my best, and I tried a couple different markers, and the writing's smudgy and it just doesn't look that good. It looks just unprofessional and not good. And we just continue and I do my best to write more neatly. And right when we finish taping this explaining video, it's like 10 or 15 minutes long, and I put the whiteboard down, I realize that the plastic shrink-wrap is still on the whiteboard. And the reason I'm having so much trouble writing on it is I'm not writing on the whiteboard, I'm writing on the shrink-wrap. And my comment, my Katie-ism to the staff, was, "Not ready for prime time." That's a real rookie mistake when it comes to a whiteboard. I mean, removing the shrink-wrap is so basic there aren't even instructions about that.

TF: [Laughs] Now, which of the Katie-isms get the most eye rolls from your staff?

KP: I think it probably is, "Read the textbook I wrote." Sometimes my staff will make a mistake or they'll say, "I don't know what the answer is. I don't know how to figure that out. I'm not sure what the rules are or the law is in this area." Say we're questioning a bank executive and we want to hold them accountable for not following a law. And I would say, "Read the textbook I wrote.” So they'll say, "How was I supposed to know?" And the answer is, "I literally have a chapter in the textbook." I think when I reach for the textbook is probably the most frustrating for them, because of course these are very long legal textbooks. And even my staffer who's a lawyer, none of us remember everything we were ever taught in school.

TF: I understand that urge, not wanting to necessarily give someone the quick, easy answer, even if you have it on the top of your head. And you probably don't, if it's something complicated, like you just explained. I can also see where the eye rolls would come from with that one. But, you know, that's life. That's work.

KP: We're a team and we have a lot of fun together. And I think it's been fun to see how things like the one you mentioned as one of your favorites, "Tasks without deadlines are just dreams,” because we all have too many things to do. And we all have to prioritize. And without a deadline, that task is very likely to go to the bottom of the pile. It's fun for me to watch my staff realize that they are making each other more successful when they give deadlines. It's not a mean or a bad thing to do. It's a helpful thing to do. You're really communicating clearly so the person can be successful.

TF: That makes me think, especially with listening to this book, you're a very, very funny person. And I can't help but think that there's a purpose to that humor, too. How does humor, and keeping things light and presenting your information in a certain way that makes people smile, how does that help you in tackling the hard parts of work and the challenging parts of life?

KP: Well, this job can be hard, as I say in the title, you know, Politics Is Messier Than My Minivan. And my minivan, by the way, is pretty messy. There are challenges to anyone's work. I think about all of the challenges that the people who are cleaning the airplane I get on to fly to DC, and how early they have to get up and how tired they must be. And so I think we all have these moments and these challenges. And the solution, I think, is you just have to keep going. And so what can you do along the way to make it easier? I think you can try to find some humor in it.

"I think the audio-only format, where you're really focusing on the words and how you're delivering them, it's a very authentic form of communication."

I grew up in a family where my dad was a real prankster. His birthday is April Fool's Day, and he's really kind of continued that. I talk a little bit about some of the hijinks that we went through as kids, and I think there were tough moments in my childhood, and I think my dad and my family always kind of tried to find the humor in it and have a sense that, "We're tough enough to get through this.” And the humor is part of that. And sometimes the pranks are part of the toughening up.

TF: And do you feel that your fellow members of Congress are receptive to that? Are they more serious than you?

KP: Well, I think that it's a false dichotomy to say that you can't be both. I think that humor actually makes you a more effective representative. It's one of the ways that we connect with each other as people. And so when there's a disagreement between people, or a different worldview, people who have come from different parts of the country, or different ages, humor is one of the great connectors. That's why humorous books and TV shows and movies are some of the most widely popular things. I mean, I am a very serious policymaker. I'm a law professor. I worked in holding banks accountable. I did consumer protection before I came to Congress. And so you can be really tough and get things done, and try to have some fun and see the humor in the moments as you go.

TF: Now, we're Audible, so of course we want to hear about your experience recording the audiobook. But first I want to know what it was like to write the book?

KP: Writing the book, I spent a lot of time, years, maybe two years, really deciding that I wanted to share how hard it can be to be in Congress, what it's like to be a single mom, some of the naysayers, and some of the challenging moments dealing with social media, having colleagues who can sometimes be jealous rather than seeing us all on the same team for the country. And so I definitely spent a long time kind of thinking about the book. I read a lot of books, trying to look for examples. I think a lot of political memoirs are, frankly, really boring and too long. I looked outside of politics for some examples. I thought about books that I had really enjoyed. Bossypantsis one good example. Al Franken's book Giant of the Senate I think is a really terrific political memoir. And so I spent a lot of time kind of conceptualizing the book, that I didn't want it to be chronological, where you have to read 150 pages, 200 pages until you find out that I went to Congress. If you're buying the book, you probably know that I'm in Congress.

Writing it actually went fairly quickly, but I really tried to think about the storytelling aspect of each chapter. "How do I want to make people feel? What is the tension? What is the protagonist and antagonist in each of those moments?" And so writing it, once I started, went pretty quickly. But I think I spent a long time thinking about the book and how I wanted it to be. I said, "I didn't go to Congress to follow the rules. I went to rewrite them." And I think I didn't write this book to churn out the typical political memoir, but rather to do one that was uniquely me. I think that's the point of the memoir.

TF: And then, what was it like to record it?

KP: Recording the audiobook was an incredible joy. By the time your book is published or in those final stages, you're so tired of it. You've looked at line edits and copy edits, and you've thought about it and reread it so many times that you've kind of lost touch, I think, with the entirety of the book, with the arc of the story. And I actually recorded this audiobook the morning after the 2022 election. I literally went from the hotel that next morning, where we'd had our election night party, directly to the studio. And I knew it would take several days for the ballots to be counted this fall. California has a lot of vote-by-mail, and in races like mine, it often takes two, three, four, five, even a week for the ballots to all be counted. And I needed something to distract me and keep me busy. And so recording the audiobook was an incredible experience, to reflect on the book and get an opportunity to celebrate it, to see how it sounded, not just how it read. And I was really impressed by the amazing director and audio person who gave me really great directions. I'm thrilled with the audiobook. I think that was one of the unexpected joys of this project, was being able to record the audiobook. I hope people enjoy it.

TF: That's wonderful to hear I must say you did a wonderful job. Obviously, your memoir, we would only want to hear Katie Porter narrate Katie Porter's memoir. But beyond that, a lot of those Katie-isms are in there throughout, a lot more Katie-isms than the official ones. And the delivery is just so great, coming from you, so I hope you do it again.

KP: I loved it. I always have thought, and I think I say this in the book, that there's an expression that someone has “a face for radio.” And I think that there's always so much discussion about what I'm wearing and how many pounds I need to lose and whether my hair looks good. And I find all of that very exhausting. And so I think the audio-only format, where you're really focusing on the words and how you're delivering them, it's a very authentic form of communication. I think it was a delight to get to record.

TF: Well, I loved listening to it. One topic I don't want to forget to ask you about, because this is something I personally think about a lot, you talk about the real work of Congress, how it's not really about the votes. Yes, that's part of it. But you see your real work as civics education. Most adults I know could really use some lessons in civics. And I know that you have a teaching background. Can you talk a little bit about your approach to teaching and learning civics in particular?

KP: One of the biggest misconceptions about Congress—and the media kind of reinforces this a lot—is that we do our important work in Washington, DC. And that voting and kind of being with each other as the members of Congress is the really meaty, substantive, important part; that's really democracy in action. You think about all the people who travel to the Capitol on field trips or to watch Congress in action.

That idea I think mistakes the most important work that Congress does, which is the work that we do in our communities. You'll hear people say, "Congress is in session or on recess." And you think about recess and you think about playgrounds and slides and merry-go-rounds. But when I'm not in Washington, the second votes end, as quickly as I can, sometimes a real scramble to get to the airport, I'm coming back home to be with my family, yes, but also to be in my community, to go and tour a water district, water recycling plant, and see how the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill is actually making a difference in letting us reduce the amount of water we use. It's going to tour a business who is facing challenges in trying to recruit employees or comply with government regulation. It's going to a nonprofit and standing side by side with its volunteers to serve food and see who's in need. Who's hungry in our community? And then you take that back with you. And when you're fighting for something like hunger assistance in the Farm Bill, you have that experience, those faces, those stories. That's the fuel that keeps you going.

And so I think the most important work of Congress is really that connection with the community. And that connection is a learning and teaching relationship. As I'm learning from businesses or nonprofit leaders or people who stop me in grocery stores and share their frustrations or their positive experiences with government, I'm also teaching them. They ask me, "What is Congress doing? Why can't we get X or Y passed? What do you think we are going to get done this Congress?"

And so I think that really thinking about learning about all of these issues, about all of these perspectives, and then also teaching people back here, "This community in California is really different than some of the communities where my colleagues come from, and some of the challenges." And so I think that learning and teaching for me, it's not that different than what I did before I ran for Congress. And I think that might surprise some people, but I think it's been really a key to not only my success on the job, but how I've found a path to enjoy what is sometimes very challenging work, how I found it to be rewarding.

TF: I think that that's a huge appeal of you, is just how well you explain things. So, I appreciate that, encourage you to keep it up. Thanks so much for your time today, Katie. It's been a pleasure getting to chat with you.

KP: Thank you so much. I swear it's been a ton of fun to be in conversation.

TF: And listeners, if you're looking for a political memoir that will make you chuckle while learning a few civics lessons, make sure to listen to I Swear: Politics Is Messier Than My Minivan by Katie Porter, available now on Audible.com.