Sona Movsesian Lacks Ambition… Should You?

Note: Text has been edited and does not match audio exactly.

Rachael Xerri: Hi, I'm Audible Editor Rachael Xerri and with me today is author of her laugh-out-loud funny memoir, The World's Worst Assistant, Sona Movsesian. You may also know her as Conan O'Brien's longtime assistant. Welcome, Sona. I have to say, after listening to your memoir, I feel like I'm about to sit down with a friend. Thank you so much for being here today.

Sona Movsesian: Oh, I'm so happy to hear that, Rachael. I love that you got that feeling. I did get very personal in some parts, but at the end of the day it is really just a recounting of my time working for Conan. So, I didn't know if people were gonna be like, "Oh, I know who she is now" or "Oh, I know what it's like to work in that world." I don't know what people will take away after having read it in terms of how they feel about me.

RX: That's a great question. What do you want them to take away from it? And what made you want to write about being the world's worst assistant? Is it a how-to book, or a how-to-not book?

SM: I do take pride in what I've accomplished at work. I think that the relationship Conan and I have is very unique and very different than what people perceive as a typical assistant/boss dynamic. And I think that I've used that to my advantage. I think he's used it to his advantage too. So both of us have taken something out of this dynamic that we have. He gets a lot of comedy material and then I get to watch a lot of TV at work and have a lot of free food.

I dedicate this book to my kids and I say, "I hope you don't inherit my work ethic." And I mean that. I think that there's a lot of crimes that I got away with, and I was very lucky to have gotten away with a lot of these crimes. But I think if someone finds a balance where they continue to work hard and actually take pride in their work, but also enjoy themselves and have fun in the meantime, then that's the good balance to strive for. I didn't write an inspirational book.

"I dedicate this book to my kids and I say, 'I hope you don't inherit my work ethic.' And I mean that."

RX: I'm really proud to hear that you are proud of what you've accomplished. Because as Audible's self development editor, I did notice you tend to be a little hard on yourself. I was wondering, has your opinion of yourself changed at all since you first sat down to write your memoir?

SM: Oh yes. A lot. You know, it's funny, because a lot of the things I used to do, I chalked up to being “Oh, I was young. I didn't know any better.” I remember writing about getting fired from the Hollywood Bowl, and I thought that happened when I was a teenager. I thought I was, like, 19 or 18 years old. And then I was talking to my cousins about when we took our trip that summer that I worked at the Hollywood Bowl, and I think I was 22. Being 18, it was excusable for some reason, my behavior. But being 22 and realizing I was actually 22, I was like, "I should've known better."

There's a lot of things that I write about—and I'm a very flawed person. I take pride in my flaws and I acknowledge them. And I think that nothing made me confront how many flaws I have and how much I have still left to work on myself as writing this book did. But I am also proud that I can acknowledge those and try to fix them and then move on from them. It was almost therapeutic, writing this book, because I did have to reflect on a lot of things, especially how I've grown. I would say that writing this book was definitely a mental journey for me. It was a lot of fun, but it was also very eye-opening.

RX: Definitely. And for what it's worth, I think 22 is still pretty young. I hear the brain doesn't stop developing till 26.

SM: You're enabling this behavior.

RX: So, I want to go back to the point earlier about your and Conan's relationship, and you guys obviously have such a great dynamic. I know you've described him as, like, your brother. He wrote your foreword. But he's still your boss, and I know if it were me telling my boss that I wanted to write about being the world's worst assistant, I might be a little bit nervous. So, I want to know what was going through your mind when you were telling Conan, or literally anybody, that you wanted to write about being the world's worst assistant.

SM: Well, I have that title because of him. He's the one who talks about how bad I am at my job and very openly tells people. So, I was like, "Why don't I just make some money off of this thing that he created?" But I thought a book was just kind of a natural way to talk about it. We've heard so much about assistants who get abused, who are overworked, who have to sacrifice so much of themselves, and that has not been my experience. He created, essentially, this persona—obviously, I helped—of me being terrible at my job, so it just seemed like a natural thing to do. It was very organic. And when I brought it up to him, because I still work for him, so I did need his permission to write about how terrible I am at my job, he was like, "I'm writing the foreword. What could we do? Tell me who I should send this to." He was on board before a word was even written.

"We've heard so much about assistants who get abused, who are overworked, who have to sacrifice so much of themselves, and that has not been my experience."

RX: We know from your book that Conan is a really big reader, so I'm gonna assume that he's read or listened to your book by now.

SM: Yeah.

RX: What was his reaction to the true version of the golf cart story? You know, the one where you accidentally drove his school-age children into a ditch and then had them push the golf cart back out. I'm just so curious.

SM: Ah, it was so funny, because I never said to his kids, "Don't tell your dad." I was like, "Unless your dad asks explicitly if we ended up in an empty ditch today, you don't have to tell him everything we did." They were five and seven at that time, I'm pretty sure. And in their youthful kind of way, they told their dad some version of what had happened, like, they got stuck. I don't think he knew the extent of how dire the situation was and how long we would be in there. There was no one helping us. We were just in a ditch. I was with his adorable, sweet children. And he and his wife both texted me and they go, "Okay, now we know the truth." [Laughs]

It was really funny. But they already knew some version of it. I don't think they knew the details of it. But, you know, I still have my job, so it's not like I got fired. And you know what? Now his daughter's going off to college, so it's been a while since that happened. Everyone's kind of moved on. The statute of limitations is over. We all lived, so it was fine. It wasn't as bad as it could've been.

RX: That's so great. That gives all of us hope, I think, who are trying to have better relationships with their bosses.

SM: Yeah.

RX: Speaking of people close to you, I want to talk about your parents, who must be so, so proud of you. You have accomplished a lot. You graduated with honors from the University of Central Florida, you traveled the world on business, you even met former Presidents Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter. How do [your parents] feel about your work ethic and the things you've written about?

SM: They were terrified. I actually just got my copies of the book not too long ago, and my mom very nervously read it. There were certain parts I think she was gonna be really upset about. I do talk in detail about The Human Centipede, which is a movie where people were sewn ass to mouth. And my mom is a very elegant, refined woman. I don't think [my parents] wanted to read in detail about how I think the entertainment industry is basically a chain of people shitting in each other's mouths. But I think they were expecting so much worse that they actually didn't mind that.

And the things that they pointed out to me were things like, "Why would you go out on three more dates after you had the worst date with the same guy? Why would you go out on four dates with the same person that were all terrible?" They were learning a lot about the things that I had done and my mom was like, "I didn't know you were egging houses. I didn't know you were doing these things." And so, they learned a lot about me. But I think because I've been just so open about the kind of person I am, they weren't too horrified by all of it. I think that they learned a lot about the person that I am and a lot about the things that I went through getting to this point. But also, they've always been very proud of me, and I think that they've always been very proud about how I'm not afraid to talk very openly about myself and about things that I've gone through. And as much as it sometimes makes them cringe a little, I think they're ultimately very proud of me. It's nice.

RX: I think you're super brave, because I think our parents' reactions are what stop most of us from ever pursuing writing a memoir.

SM: Yes!

RX: That really resonated with me, especially as a fellow first-gen American. I thought your whole story about watching your parents work really, really hard and having that work ethic embedded in your personality and then finding your own way was so relatable.

SM: Oh, I'm so happy. Where are your parents from, Rachael?

RX: Oh, they're from Malta. Do you want to tell our audience where your parents are from?

SM: We're Armenian. It's important to make that distinction. We're Armenian, but my parents are from Istanbul, Turkey. They actually kinda knew each other back home, but they re-met here when my mom came out here, got married, and had me and my brother.

I do think that the immigrant work ethic is an inspiring thing to watch, especially when people come here not knowing the language and then they work really hard to establish a life for themselves here. It is something that I often wonder, how my parents then had me. And my work ethic, even though it was ingrained in me and I've worked since I was 16 and I did everything I could to be independent and not depend on them financially, that now I'm writing this book called The World's Worst Assistant and it just chronicles how my work ethic has gotten to a point where I'm like, "I don't wanna work, but I want a paycheck. So, I'm just gonna sit here and hope that money just comes into my bank account somehow." Which is the complete antithesis of what they did.

RX: Absolutely. That is so relatable. So, what did compel you to work the entire plot of The Human Centipede into your book as a metaphor for the entertainment industry? And were there any other metaphors that you had drafted? What was that process like?

SM: Oh, no. The Human Centipede was the no-brainer for me. In fact, I was surprised no one had written about it before. Because I did Google it and I was like, "Am I the only one who watched The Human Centipede and thought, 'This is like the entertainment industry'?" But it's funny, because some people have read it and they compare it to their own industry. Like, even if they're not in entertainment, it's applicable. Any job where someone is abusing their subordinates, you're like, "Who hurt you? Who shit in your mouth that makes you feel like it's okay to shit in our mouths?"

It seemed like a very simple kind of analogy to make. Although grotesque, it was a simple one. But I was always wondering, because from day one Conan was a wonderful boss. He was really sweet and he was very nice to everybody who works for him. He's not an abusive person. You don't leave having PTSD from Conan. It's just really great memories. I mean, he does make fun of you. He smacks food out of my hand. He publicly ridicules me. But at the same time, there's so many other people who have it so much worse, and I actually enjoy his form, because I think it's funny.

But you wonder, why is it that some other people in some industries, like the people at the very top, are so awful? And I really do think it's because people treated them awfully, and so they're treating other people awfully. So, it's this chain. And when I was thinking about that, it just seemed as though The Human Centipede was a very natural tool to use to describe the situation. I had illustrations in the book before, and I took those out because I think there is a point where it goes a little too far. And I think the illustrations I had put in about The Human Centipede maybe pushed it a little too far. I ended up taking those out. So, you're welcome.

RX: Oh my. Thank you for that. You're so funny. Your memoir is really the funniest thing I've listened to in a long time. I also found so many kernels of truth in your memoir, and you're hitting on a lot of those points now as well. Your emphasis on work/life balance, making yourself indispensable at your job, the way you demand respect, whatever that is for you. I hear you saying that Conan maybe still crosses the line sometimes. All of that, I think, is part of this larger conversation that we've been having right now about society's relationship to work. This isn't a self development book, but I am curious to hear what career advice you have for the working class, and especially new graduates. If you could tell new graduates anything, what would it be?

SM: It's funny, because when I first graduated college, people would say to me, "You need to take a job at this place, because these bosses abuse their assistants and it'll make your skin thicker. And if you apply to other jobs after that, people will know you can handle certain things because you were able to handle that." And it's interesting how, back then, I was like, "Oh, right. Okay. That makes a lot of sense." And now I look back on that piece of advice and I'm horrified by it.

It's very interesting that we had to take so long to get to a point where we were like, "You know what? Maybe we shouldn't be physically and mentally abused at our jobs." And it's really sad that it's taken so long to get there, because it's so obvious. But I think especially in the entertainment industry, and I think in a lot of other industries as well, but especially in the entertainment industry, there was always this idea of paying your dues. You have to just sludge through all of this crap so that you can get to a point where you have a job you actually like and that you're respected in. But I think that every single person who works at every job in any level should be respected. That includes interns, it includes assistants, includes people in the mail room. At every level, people need to be respected. Because those people will move up, they'll get into positions of power maybe. But even if they don't move up, they're human beings. And I think that if we stop looking at people who are working as human beings who deserve respect, who deserve to be valued, who deserve to know their worth, I think the work suffers. But if you have a workplace where everyone is respected and everyone feels as though they know their worth, then the workplace as a whole just becomes so much better.

My advice to people is, don't compromise too much of yourself because you feel like you have to in order to get ahead. That's probably the best advice I would give.

RX: I think that's super solid advice actually, and it sounds like you have a lot of fun at work. One part of your memoir stood out to me and it was that Prince Philip impression that you did. It was chef's kiss, as the kids are saying.

SM: [Laughs]

RX: I was wondering if you could give our listeners a little sneak preview of that voice.

SM: This is the beauty of Audible, that I was able in the audiobook to do those impressions. But yeah, this is my Prince Philip: [In Prince Philip voice] Hello Rachael. How are you? It's nice to meet you. I'm Prince Philip. Maybe later we can go hunting for pheasant and then you can come over and hang out with me and Queen Elizabeth. This has been a mighty, mighty good time. Mighty good time, Rachael. It was lovely talking to you. I have to go now.

I should preface this by saying I've never heard Prince Philip speak, so what I just did was horrifying. I've never heard him actually speak, but if I continue on with the impression, it just goes into complete gibberish where I'm suddenly like [Prince Philip gibberish sounds].

I'm sorry. That's so stupid. I wasted so many people's time doing that impression. I'm so happy you liked it, because I'm not an impressionist and I'm very proud of that.

RX: Oh my gosh. I need a minute [laughs]. Oh, you are so funny. I recently watched a compilation video of your greatest moments on Conan. And all the viewer comments were so amazing and it's so evident how much your fans love [you], and of course we really do. And so many people said you should have your own show. I know that you like to, in your own words, keep the expectations low, but I think we all want to know, what's next for you? Do you have any more solo projects in the works?

SM: I'm very, very flattered people think that about me. The truth is, I think nothing will make you not want to have your own show more than working for someone who had their own show. I don't know if that makes sense. But just seeing every day, you have to come in, you have to be on top of your game. You know, I talk about how bad my work ethic is. Conan's work ethic is the polar opposite of mine. That guy works hard every single day. I didn't take this job seeking out any sort of fame or to be known. And if I get to a point where I'm just doing the podcast and working for Conan, I would be perfectly happy. And I think if nothing else comes out of this, then that's okay for me.

I think that if I'm banking on any type of fame or my own TV show, I don't think I could do it, Rachael. I really don't think that I have the patience. I don't want to spend that much time away from my kids. I'm gonna turn 40 this year, which I think for women in entertainment is close to 80. I'm really, really happy connecting with Conan's fans the way that I'm connecting with them through the podcast. Getting to meet them when I'm out in the streets. Whatever level I'm at right now is a very comfortable, happy level for me.

But I'm very flattered you think I would think past this. I'm surprised that you read the book, Rachael, and you're asking me what my ambitions are past this when all I'm thinking about is what am I gonna have for lunch today. It's very flattering that you would think that I would have any sort of career goals.

RX: I think that is perfectly fair and I admire your commitment to your own authenticity and being yourself, and I think that is really admirable. So just one final question before you go: Can you tell us what it was like recording your own audiobook?

SM: Since this is for Audible, I do want to say that I got to do my audiobook for this book, and it was such an experience. I had so much fun. I talk in the book about how I have a speech background, and I think I really got a chance to use that when I was recording the audiobook. I'm really proud of it. You know, Conan does the foreword, and recording it, I thought, was going to be very jarring and overwhelming, and it turned out to be a really fun experience. I'm really happy that you wanted to talk to me today. It was so wonderful talking to you, Rachael, and I really feel you gave me a good boost. Because I don't know how this book is gonna go over. I don't know if people are gonna love it or hate it, but I'm really proud of it and I'm really excited that we got a chance to talk about it.

RX: I think you really knocked it out of the park, and I want to thank you so much for speaking with me today. It's been such a blast. And for anyone who's listening in right now, you can get The World's Worst Assistant by Sona Movsesian on Audible. Please go check it out. And thank you so much, Sona.