This week’s guest is environmental consulting superstar, Ross McFarland. He shares his thoughts on whether samples we take are actually representative of the site conditions.

Is a 250 ml soil sample that is obtained with all our best intentions, a minute 5 g of which is then analysed, actually representative of a large area or of a large volume of soil? Have you ever stood in front of a massive stockpile of soil and wondered how in the world and from which part of the stockpile you will take samples that are:

1. Representative.
2. In numbers that don’t send your company broke.
3. Don't get you fired in the process.

Turns out that the environmental industry is not the only one grappling with the representativeness of their samples. In this episode we learn that the mining industry has a similar problem, and yet they have managed to develop methods that are demonstrably better at obtaining truly representative samples -- far more so than simply using grab samples as per AS4482 – the method the environmental industry seems to be so fond of.

Join us on a little dive into the science of soil sampling. There is a lot of food for thought in this episode. Ross was unbelievably well informed, impressive and absolutely fascinating, James was his usual charming inquisitive self and Gunnar was for a change surprisingly well behaved (for the most part). That alone would make it a must to listen to, don't you think?

Ross on LinkedIn: https://au.linkedin.com/in/ross-mcfarland-9b740917

This episode was recorded on 18 June 2024.

Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. Get 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category

Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au

https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast

The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers.

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

Get prosecuted by the EPA and found guilty, get fined several hundred thousand Dollars and make $1.5 Million profit out of that whole scenario.

If that sounds too much like fiction and Ocean's 11-ish, then listen into this episode. Many years ago James was involved in a big EPA investigation surrounding the Bowral Landfill.

Gunnar and James talk about

• how James got involved in that investigation
• what happens when you are a key witness in such a high flying case
• how that affects you personally
• how that affects you professionally
• how that affects the brand of your company
• what James learned from that (rather traumatising) experience
• how he and the company came out of that stronger and better (so easy to say in hindsight)

It is an unusually serious subject that the two tackle this time, but they still manage to make it entertaining. As usual one might be tempted to say.

Here is the link to EPA's update and ruling on that case

Here is a link to the some photos of that landfill:

The episode was recorded over a few sessions in May 2024

Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. Get 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category

Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au

https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast

The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers.

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

Bond Villains, Broke Parents and Asbestos in Soils Assessments: A Wild Ride with Pierina Otness

Gunnar and James are back with another high-flying guest on their podcast! Somehow this episode feels very James Bond-ish.

Scene 1: The Asbestos Assessment Authority

Gunnar and James, sit down with none other than Pierina Otness - the undisputed authority on asbestos in soils (ASBINS) assessments.

Scene 2: James vs. James Bond

Gunnar feels that James needs an introduction worthy of 007.

Scene 3: Broke Parents Club

Pierina drops truth bombs: having kids is like investing in a black hole. Your wallet? Empty. Your sanity? Questionable. But hey, at least you’re broke together.

Scene 4: Research Papers and National Guidelines

The gang dives into research papers like treasure hunters. Turns out, the Western Australian guidelines on ASBINS were inspired by ancient scrolls hidden in a dusty library. But Pierina and her colleagues read them all, summarised them and produced a Bible-like guidance document that stands the test of time (and Gunnar is not impressed with the Bible comparison of course).

Scene 5: Pierina’s Masterclass

Consultants, listen up! Pierina spills the beans on how to ace an ASBINS assessment and Gunnar and James find it hard to become worthy Pierina disciples due to a lack of adequate training opportunities.

Scene 6: The Sydney Seduction

Gunnar, ever the smooth talker, tries to woo Pierina to move to NSW. Pierina somehow seems to be able to resist though. How weird.

Executive Summary: Pierina’s Awesomeness

Gunnar and James transform this seemingly mundane topic into an electrifying episode. It’s all thanks to Pierina’s awesomeness. Tune in - you won’t want to miss it!

Remember, dear listeners, asbestos might be hazardous, but this podcast? Pure gold.

Pierina Otness on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pierina-otness-a1604355

The episode was recorded on 31 May 2024

Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. Get 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category

Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au

https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast

The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers.

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

The changed PoEO Act - way more than just increased penalties.

Gunnar and James found themselves in the company of not one, but two lawyers. While that usually is not a good thing no matter how you look at it, this time it’s not about courtrooms and objections, but it’s about environmental law. Darren Bick and Daniel Webster, Environmental and Planning Lawyers extraordinaire, joined the two for a chat about recent changes to the Protection of the Environment Operations Act.

Now, chatting about legal jargon might not scream "riveting podcast material," but hold your judgment (get it?). Believe us, Gunnar and James manage to wet even the driest of subjects with humour and sarcasm.

Hat tip also to Darren and Daniel who not only showed their deep subject knowledge and an even deeper sense of humour but also a cunning ability to handle Gunnar's as usual borderline inappropriate comments.

https://www.bicksteele.com.au/

https://au.linkedin.com/in/darrenbick

https://au.linkedin.com/in/daniel-webster-36299982

The Australian Sustainable Business Group seminar we mentioned: https://www.asbg.net.au/index.php/seminars/asbg-recorded-webinars/615-nsw-s-new-environmental-laws-its-implications-seminar-17-april-2024

This episode was recorded on 8 May 2024

Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. Get 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category

Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au

https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast

The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers.

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

Part II of the interview with Canadian Chemical Processes Expert Paul Martin.
In case you have missed it, in Part I Paul talked us through the, rather inconvenient facts about hydrogen as a means to export energy for Australia and why that is a rather far fetched idea.

Here is a link to Part 1 of the interview.

In this episode Gunnar and James talk about:

• The best uses for hydrogen
• How we will best decarbonise our lives
• We learn about carbon taxes and how Canada has implemented them quite successfully
• Objections to carbon taxes
• Electricity prices in Australia
• What fuels we will use for land transport in the future
• Also for air traffic and long distance shipping
• Whether we will be able to use the existing gas infrastructure (terminals, pipelines, pumping stations etc.)

On top of all that Gunnar took the opportunity to show his terrible knowledge of fairly recent Australian political events. James came to the rescue.

Reach Paul at
https://spitfireresearch.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/today/author/paul-martin-195763b

The articles Paul Mentions during the episode:

The Myth Of Hydrogen Export: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/myth-hydrogen-export-spitfire-research-inc

What are the Energy Solutions? https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/what-energy-solutions-paul-martin

Hydrogen Science Coalition www.h2sciencecoalition.com

The episode was recorded on 17 April 2024

Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. Get 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category

Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au

https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast

The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers.

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

Gunnar and James are talking to Paul Martin, a Canadian Chemical Process Development Expert and tireless advocate for a fossil free future. This first part of a two-part episode looks into whether the claims that Australia has a future as a new energy provider to the world via Hydrogen exports are based on reality or wishful thinking. Paul Martin calls a lot of it #hopium - that should give you an indication of what Paul will be presenting.

Link to Part 2 of this chat.

Reach Paul at
https://spitfireresearch.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/today/author/paul-martin-195763b

The articles Paul Mentions during the episode:

The Myth Of Hydrogen Export: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/myth-hydrogen-export-spitfire-research-inc

What are the Energy Solutions? https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/what-energy-solutions-paul-martin

Hydrogen Science Coalition www.h2sciencecoalition.com

The episode was recorded on 17 April 2024

Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. Get 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category

Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au

https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast

The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers.

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

Our guest on this episode is Adrian Heggie. Over the past decade Adrian has developed an amazingly simple method for the delineation of sub-surface hydrocarbon plumes (chlorinated or not) by measuring the aboveground concentration these plumes cause. His method is fast, accurate, inexpensive and most of all, does not require any invasive ground work. If you think this sounds too good to be true, this chat will convince you otherwise.

Adrian showcased his research at the recent Chlorinated Hydrocarbon Symposium held in Adelaide. Among the audience was Gunnar, who, like many others, was intrigued by the presentation. In this chat the two of them delve into Adrian's research and shed some light on how hydrocarbon contamination reaching the surface can be captured and measured (not a good pun, but still intended).

https://au.linkedin.com/in/adrian-heggie-b7767336


The episode was recorded on 28 March 2024.

Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. Get 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category

Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au

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The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers.

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

In this episode, we delve into the question of dangers lurking in unsuspecting areas like our backyards and public parks. Join Gunnar and James as they discuss with researcher Ana Serra the findings of her study into asbestos exposure from seemingly mundane activities like lawn mowing or soil disturbance during landscaping or Council maintenance work.

• How many respirable fibres get released when a lawn mower drives over bonded asbestos fragments on the surface of a site?
• What happens when the spinning blades hit a fragment and the fragment gets propelled out?
• What happens when you do all this during a record breaking dry spell in hot and dusty Australian summer conditions ?
• Is there a difference in exposure levels when you compare members of the public who are nearby the work areas to the exposure of the trades people doing the actual work?
• What measures can be taken to avoid the release of respirable fibres during those activities?
• How do you best approach the subject with worried staff members and the public?

The 2019 study was funded by Liverpool City Council. Investing in research is often a challenging decision for local councils, but guess which Council's rate payers are sitting rather sweet now during the Mulchgate panic and enjoy the fruit of the research? Huge credit to Liverpool City Council for taking the lead and funding the research. What a great investment it turned out to be.

This episode was recorded on 15 March 2024.

Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. Get 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category

Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au

https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast

The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers.

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond