When Anthony Procaccio graduated from law school in 2013, he was one of 46,776 U.S. law students to do so (the most of any year on record, and 36% more than 2023). The economy was beginning to recover from the 2007-08 financial crisis, but job seekers were still struggling.

Procaccio, now the president of the State Bar of Wisconsin's Young Lawyers Division, was among many law school graduates who faced various economic challenges post-2008, including student loan debt. On top of that, he wasn't sure he wanted to practice law at all.

Post-law school, Procaccio took law adjacent positions that did not require a law degree. Then it hit him: he didn't want to lose the opportunity to use his law license. It was time for Procaccio to get in the game to find work as a practicing lawyer and to find his niche.

In this episode of the Bottom Up podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, Procaccio and Communications Director Joe Forward discuss the challenges young lawyers can face in finding desired employment and navigating the early years of practice.

Procaccio shares his own winding path to his current role as an attorney in Milwaukee and offers advice for new graduates and younger lawyers. The conversation highlights the importance of mentorship, the stress of the job, and the need for self-care.

He notes that the Young Lawyers Division is a resource for young attorneys to network, gain leadership experience, and find support. And Procaccio reiterates a common theme among all guests of the Bottom Up Podcast: there is no right or wrong path - there is only your path.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Overview

02:46 Challenges of Finding Employment

10:36 The Importance of Mentorship

25:17 Managing Stress and Self-Care

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Catching Up
06:13 The Value of Law Clerkships
11:10 What Employers Look for in a Good Clerk
13:28 The Importance of Mentorship in Law Clerkships
16:18 Doing Impactful Work as a Law Clerk
27:07 Seeking Opportunities and Making Connections as a Law Clerk
29:54 Owning Mistakes and Learning
32:42 The Importance of Soft Skills
37:54 The Impact of Technology on Job Security
45:18 The Role of Lawyers in Regulating AI
51:38 Advice for New Lawyers

Takeaways

Law clerks should be teachable, have a strong work ethic, and be willing to learn and grow.
Employers look for candidates who are curious, coachable, and have a likable personality.
Law clerks should seek out opportunities to do impactful work and make connections with their employers.
It is important for law clerks to ask for feedback and constructive criticism to improve their skills.
Law students and young lawyers should be open to exploring different areas of law and figuring out what they enjoy and excel at. Owning mistakes and learning from them is crucial in the legal profession.
Employers should show grace and provide opportunities for new lawyers to fail and learn.
Soft skills, such as punctuality and attention to detail, are important for success in the legal profession.
Advice for new lawyers includes being themselves, embracing new learning opportunities, asking questions, getting involved, and being resilient.

Episode 19 of the Bottom Up Podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, features a discussion on lawyer wellness, stress, and sleep deprivation, focusing on the unique stressors legal professionals face. Amber Ault -- who manages the State Bar's Wisconsin Lawyers Assistance Program (WisLAP) and has extensive experience in the fields of therapy, sociology, and social work -- shares insights and tips for reducing stress and improving sleep habits. Communications Director Joe Forward hosts the discussion, which also covers the WisLAP program.

Takeaways

• Lawyers face unique stressors and challenges that impact their mental health and well-being.
• Reducing stress and improving sleep habits are essential for lawyer wellness and overall well-being.
• The Wisconsin Lawyers Assistance Program (WisLAP) offers confidential well-being support to the legal community, providing resources and assistance for lawyers facing mental health challenges.
• Educational events and resources, such as the Mental Health Literacy for Lawyers seminar, are available to help lawyers understand mental health issues and seek support.
• It's important for lawyers to recognize the signs of stress and seek help early, rather than waiting until the situation becomes critical.

Attorney Tom Watson, the featured guest in the latest episode of the Bottom Up Podcast produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, knows what it means to reinvent yourself.

Tom started his career in broadcast radio. He interviewed big names like Bill Clinton, Jesse Jackson, entertainer Red Skelton, and others. At age 37, Tom enrolled in law school. He's now the CEO and president of Wisconsin Lawyers Mutual Insurance Company (WILMIC).

From radio to public relations, from family law attorney to legal malpractice insurance executive, Tom talks about his multi-phased career path before diving deep into the world of legal malpractice insurance, and the parade of horribles.

Co-host Emil Ovbiagele and guest host Joe Forward steer the conversation with Tom, who has been with WILMIC for almost two decades. They learn that Tom approaches his role in helping lawyers with enthusiasm and deep knowledge of the legal malpractice insurance industry.

Tom says estate planning continues to be a high-risk area, as claims can come from disenfranchised, third-party beneficiaries. But he also says claims that stem from cyber fraud and/or social engineering are on the rise, and lawyers should be on the lookout. Tom, a natural storyteller, shares stories about "craziest claims" he's seen in his two decades at WILMIC.

Throughout the show, Tom provides advice for lawyers in their early years and beyond. That includes taking time to build relationships, being patient with success, and finding your passion.

Chapters

00:00: The Great American Eclipse and Tom Watson, the Early Years
19:32: From Radio to Law
29:46: The Importance of Showing Up
38:37: The Growing Threat of Social Engineering and Cyber Fraud
52:40: The Need for Malpractice Insurance
1:02:16: Challenges in Estate Planning and Disputes
1:11:45: Other Common Areas for Malpractice Claims
1:25:01: The Flexibility of a JD in Career Choices

Ever heard of imposter syndrome? In this episode of the Bottom Up podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, co-host Emil Ovbiagele and guest host Joe Forward interview Samantha Huddleston Baker, a partner at OVB Law and Consulting S.C. in Milwaukee. They discuss impostor syndrome and carving out paths in the early years of a legal career.

Samantha shares her background and journey to law school, as well as her experience joining the law firm and overcoming impostor syndrome. She also talks about finding her path in business and real estate law. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the dynamic between partners and associates. In this episode, the hosts discuss the challenges faced by young attorneys in the early years of their careers. They advise navigating these challenges, including how to effectively use support staff, deal with imposter syndrome, cultivate trust with clients, and handle difficult feedback. They emphasize the importance of confidence, communication, and continuous learning in building a successful legal career.

Takeaways

• Impostor syndrome is common among young lawyers and can make them feel inadequate or like they are pretending to be something they're not.
• Overcoming impostor syndrome requires preparation, hard work, and a willingness to ask for help and seek guidance from more experienced attorneys.
• Finding a path in a specific area of law often comes through experience and working with clients who give opportunities to learn and grow.
• The dynamic between partners and associates can sometimes create a fear of bothering the partner with questions, but it's important for associates to ask for help and not spend unnecessary time on tasks that could be resolved quickly with guidance. Do initial work to understand the subject matter before asking questions.
• Be persistent and confident in asking for help.
• Don't be afraid to challenge more experienced attorneys respectfully.
• Build a network of mentors and peers for support and guidance.
• Avoid comparing yourself to others and focus on your own progress

Chapters

00:00 Introduction

02:24 Impostor Syndrome and Carving Out Paths in Early Years of a Legal Career

08:10 Background and Journey to Law School

13:17 Joining the Law Firm and Overcoming Impostor Syndrome

23:37 Dealing with Impostor Syndrome and Fear

30:09 Defining Impostor Syndrome and Overcoming It

33:32 Dynamic Between Partners and Associates

34:58 Navigating the Early Years as a Young Attorney

46:08 Challenges Faced as a New Attorney

55:55 Using Support Staff Effectively

58:08 Dealing with Imposter Syndrome

01:00:05 Cultivating Trust with Clients

01:02:37 Comparing Career Progress with Peers

01:05:52 Handling Difficult Feedback

Simply defined, human trafficking is the exploitation of human beings for someone else's gain, according to Erika Petty, executive director at Milwaukee-based Lotus Legal Clinic, a nonprofit that provides free legal services exclusively to victims of human trafficking. 

As you'll discover in Episode 16 of the Bottom Up podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, while human trafficking can be simply defined, the complexity of the issue spans the nation and the globe, and hits home right here in Wisconsin. 

To close out January, which is National Human Trafficking Prevention Month, Bottom Up co-host Kristen Hardy sat down with Petty to discuss the complexities of the human trafficking problem.

Along the way, we hear about the different ways in which human traffickers identify vulnerable people or populations and use that to exploit them for financial and other gain.

We hear how victims are forced and coerced to commit crimes and give up all autonomy, making it difficult or impossible to escape, as the victim often depends on their traffickers for survival. We hear how victims are lured with promises into isolated situations, and forced into unpaid labor.

"Trafficking is definitely a hidden crime and there can be red flags, but those red flags are only going to be visible if the victim is engaging in society in a way in which people are looking out for that person," said Petty, noting that traffickers know how to keep victims isolated. 

But Petty also provides hope, and pathways for lawyers and others to help, through the donation of time or resources. Her work and the work of Lotus Legal Clinic involves the enforcement of crime victims' rights, criminal record relief, civil legal services involving housing, credit repair, workplace protections, and other issues. The clinic also helps victims on a pathway to healing. 

In 1963, Frank Gimbel was just three years out of law school when he became an assistant U.S. attorney, serving five years before switching to defense counsel. Gimbel's career as a trial lawyer, spanning six decades, has been chronicled extensively, with many awards to his name.

But the early days were no walk in the park. Gimbel worked as a tax return preparer, a clothes salesman, and held other side jobs to keep food on the table. These experiences required hustle and humility as Gimbel seasoned himself into one of Wisconsin's most recognized trial lawyers.

In this episode of Bottom Up, co-hosts Emil Ovbiagele and Kristen Hardy dig deeper into Gimbel's career, which includes a successful prosecution of former Milwaukee organized crime boss Frank Balistrieri and other high-profile cases as a litigator in private practice.

Gimbel, former president of the State Bar of Wisconsin (1986-87) and founder of what is now Gimbel, Reilly, Guerin & Brown LLP, unveils many qualities and strategies that led to his trial successes. He also discusses how politics and hustle helped forge his path, the conflicts he encountered, the value of respect, and how getting involved can help lawyers build a practice. 

"You generate business by being in the community," Gimbel says. "While the numbers change, the formula for surviving as a lawyer after law school is not different."

As younger lawyers enter the profession, how do they collaborate and communicate effectively with older generations, who may collaborate differently? What are the current trends, challenges, and opportunities for solo and small firms in the practice management and technology space? 

These are some of the questions that co-host Emil Ovbiagele and Joe Forward (guest host) explore with guests Erin Ogden and Brent Hoeft. This is the second episode in a two-parter focused on solo and small firms, recorded from the 2023 Wisconsin Solo & Small Firm Conference.

Erin Ogden – a partner and co-founder of Ogden Glazer+Schaefer in Madison – dives into smaller firm practice management issues (first 23:19). The pandemic, she says, caused a seismic shift in how law firms operate. In addition, younger generations are entering the profession with a whole new perspective on effective communication through the use of technology. 

“The way I manage is not going to be the same as someone who was [born in the 2000s],” Ogden says. “Not in a bad way. Diversification is key. They are coming up with new ideas and new ways of looking at things. In addition, we do a lot of work with [younger clients]. How do I talk to them?"  She noted that email may not be a primary form of communication for younger generations. 

In the second segment (starting at 23:20), Brent Hoeft discusses the challenges and opportunities that rapidly evolving technology brings to solo and small firm practice. Hoeft, who started a virtual law practice as a solo practitioner over a decade ago, is the new practice management advisor for the State Bar’s Law Office Management Assistance Program (also known as Practice 411™). 

Hoeft highlights common technology issues, how different generations approach privacy and security (and what that means for law firms), the opportunities to save significant time and money using evolving technology, and how Practice 411 can help as a member benefit.