Episodios

  • From Division I Athlete to Senior IT instructor with Art Green III | Ep058
    Feb 3 2026
    Episode Information Show NotesSometimes the career you’re meant for finds you through the most unexpected path.Art Green III, Senior IT Workforce Programs Instructor at Tech Impact, joins Career Downloads to share his journey from college athlete to tech instructor helping disadvantaged students launch IT careers. His story is a masterclass in resilience, adaptability, and finding fulfillment through service.Guest Background:Art Green III spent his early years as a Division I athlete with dreams of professional sports. When a career-ending injury shattered that identity, he moved to Las Vegas searching for a fresh start. What began as a random job at a travel agency became the unexpected gateway to a 20+ year technology career.Today, Art leads Tech Impact’s IT Works programs in Las Vegas, teaching students from challenging backgrounds the technical and professional skills needed to launch successful IT careers. He also supports instructors across Tech Impact’s locations in Philadelphia, Delaware, and Nashville while developing cutting-edge curriculum including AI training programs.Episode Highlights:Identity Loss and RebuildingArt opens up about the devastating experience of losing his athlete identity after a career-ending injury. Sports had been his entire life since childhood — there was no Plan B. The transition forced him to confront who he was beyond the field and find new purpose.Accidental Entry Into TechNeeding work after moving to Las Vegas, Art took a job as a travel agent. During downtime between calls, his natural curiosity led him to explore the computer systems. He discovered a backend coding interface and taught himself to completely redesign the booking process. That curiosity opened the door to his tech career.The Power of Being the WorstWhen Art started at Dell technical support, he was the worst performer out of 300 technicians. Rather than quitting, he committed to learning. This experience taught him that being the worst in the room is often the best position for growth — a lesson he now shares with his students.Finding Purpose Through TeachingArt’s first taste of teaching came when he trained new Dell hires while traveling the country. He discovered he loved teaching as much as troubleshooting. That seed planted years ago led him to his current role transforming lives through education.Nonprofit vs. For-Profit EducationWorking in for-profit education admissions left Art conflicted. He could spot students who weren’t ready for $80,000 programs but was told to enroll them anyway. The ethical struggle drove him to seek nonprofit education where mission aligned with impact.Tech Impact’s MissionTech Impact’s mission, leveraging technology to create social impact, resonated deeply with Art. The organization serves dislocated, disenfranchised youth, many from difficult circumstances including homelessness. Watching students go from shelters to IT engineering roles at major resorts makes every day meaningful.Student Success StoriesArt shares powerful examples of transformation: students who started the program homeless now working as IT engineers at Las Vegas resorts. The mentorship component brings industry professionals into students’ lives, creating relationships and opportunities that extend far beyond technical training.Authentic Recruiting PhilosophyArt’s approach to student recruiting shifted from begging people to enroll to presenting genuine opportunities. He shares his background and knowledge without selling — creating space for students to make informed decisions about their futures.Key Takeaways:– Your painful experiences often prepare you to help others facing similar challenges– Being the worst performer is an opportunity for accelerated learning– Financial compensation alone won’t sustain you without meaningful work– Transferable skills from past roles apply in unexpected ways– Finding work that creates social impact changes everythingAbout Tech Impact:Tech Impact is a nati...
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    1 h y 16 m
  • From Art Student to IT Manager with Mike Green | Ep057
    Jan 27 2026
    Episode Information Show NotesMike Green didn’t start out planning a career in technology. As a passionate art student in small-town New York, he faced a tough decision: pursue a field he loved with uncertain job security, or pivot to the growing computer industry. He chose computers, and 25+ years later, he’s never looked back.Today, Mike manages the Digital Services Division for Clark County, Nevada IT, leading four distinct teams that deliver enterprise platforms and applications. His journey from a 16-week network technician program to IT leadership wasn’t smooth. It was filled with layoffs, career pivots, and hard lessons about professional communication.EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS:Mike shares the moment he realized art might not provide long-term security and decided to explore “a job in computers” (they didn’t call it IT yet). He got his start through a 16-week certification program that included a two-week unpaid internship and recruiting support. His first placement was at a telecom company that eventually became part of Verizon.One of the most memorable parts of Mike’s story is how he learned professional communication the hard way. His first few consulting deliverables at a shipping and transportation company were torn apart by his manager. He was using colloquial phrases, plain language, and missing the professional tone clients expected. The feedback stung, but it transformed how he wrote and communicated with leadership.Mike discusses the value of personality assessments, particularly DISC, which helped him understand not just his own working style but how to adapt to people with different personality traits. This skill became crucial when working with elected officials and diverse teams at Clark County.His commitment to giving back shines through his work with Tech Impact, a Las Vegas organization where he mentors students entering technology. His perspective: “If what I had then got me to where I am now, if I help them with this program now, they will be so much farther ahead of me by the time they’re my age.”KEY TAKEAWAYS:Career transitions require honest assessment of long-term security vs. passionChanging jobs every 3 years built diverse technical experience across systems administration, networking, and leadershipProfessional communication skills separate good technicians from great leadersPersonality assessments (like DISC) provide valuable insight for working with diverse teamsKeep your resume updated and practice interviewing regularly, even when you’re not looking for a jobCommunity involvement and mentorship create lasting impact beyond your own careerThinking two steps ahead helps you spot opportunities before they passAdaptability doesn’t mean losing your authentic self — it means understanding how to work effectively with different peopleService to others provides meaning and helps you work through your own challengesABOUT MIKE GREEN:Mike Green is the IT Manager for Clark County, Nevada, where he oversees the Digital Services Division with four teams focused on enterprise platforms and applications. Since starting in IT in 1998, Mike has built expertise across networking, systems administration, and IT leadership. His career has included roles in telecommunications, education, shipping and transportation, and public sector technology. Mike is actively involved in the Society of Information Managers (SIM) and serves as a mentor for Tech Impact, helping shape the next generation of technology professionals in Las Vegas.CONNECT WITH CAREER DOWNLOADS:New episodes release every Tuesday. Subscribe on your favorite podcast platform to learn from technology professionals sharing their career journeys. The good, the bad, and the lessons learned along the way. TranscriptionManuel Martinez: Welcome, everyone. My name is Manuel Martinez and this is another episode of Career Downloads. Each episode I basically hit the refresh button, bring on a different guest to learn more about ...
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    1 h y 26 m
  • From Rock Bottom to Tech Leadership with Ray Freeman | Ep056
    Jan 20 2026
    Episode Information Show NotesThe Week That Changed EverythingRay Freeman’s tech career includes a chapter most people would rather forget. After the 2008 financial crisis, Ray lost his job, his wife lost hers, and their six-bedroom Houston house became a financial prison. Eventually, Ray spent a week sleeping in his car while working contract IT jobs.Today, Ray is President and Chief Strategy Officer of RTS Premier Solutions, serving government agencies with AI and cybersecurity solutions. His story isn’t about avoiding failure, it’s about what happens when you refuse to stay down.What Makes This Episode DifferentRay doesn’t tell the sanitized version of his career. He shares the real story: blowing through money faster than he made it, losing everything in five days, and the humbling experience of living out of his car with a George Foreman grill and a rice cooker from Goodwill.But he also shares how those experiences built the resilience, communication skills, and leadership mindset that drive his success today. You’ll hear about getting fired from AT&T for challenging leadership and then being called back by the CTO who vindicated him completely.Key TakeawaysOn Building Confidence:Ray discovered he was smart by accident. After struggling in traditional school, he took Microsoft certification exams on a whim and scored perfect. That moment changed everything. He learned that finding the right way to learn matters more than fitting into someone else’s system.On Resilience:When Ray lost everything, he didn’t call for help. He bought a styrofoam cooler, found a Dollar General, and figured out how to survive. One week later, he had his first paycheck and could rent an apartment. The experience taught him that survival builds character.On Leadership:Ray got fired from AT&T for going over his manager’s head to warn about a critical infrastructure problem. Weeks later, the CTO called him back, saw the problem immediately, and gave Ray’s company a contract. That experience taught Ray to speak truth to power, no matter the personal cost.On Communication:Ray studied DISC and Emergenetics, psychometric assessments that taught him to recognize how people think and communicate. He learned to modify his tone, pace, posture, and words based on his audience. This skill became the foundation for his ability to simplify complex technical problems for executives.On Goal Setting:When Ray was sleeping in his car, he broke survival into daily goals. Make it to Monday. Get through the week. Get the first paycheck. Find an apartment. This approach of breaking massive goals into manageable chunks became a career skill that serves him to this day.On Business Ownership:Ray used to think owning a business meant doing all the work himself. Learning that business ownership means assembling people, processes, and tools not doing everything personally, transformed how he thinks about scaling and creating opportunities for others.About Ray FreemanRay Freeman is President and CSO of RTS Premier Solutions and co-owner of Win-Win Operations. With over 20 years in technology and a background that includes music production with major artists, Ray brings a unique perspective to tech leadership.His journey from sleeping in his car to leading government technology contracts proves that setbacks don’t define your career, your response to them does.Connect with Ray on LinkedIn or learn more about RTS Premier Solutions.Listen & SubscribeCareer Downloads releases new episodes every week. Subscribe on your favorite podcast platform and never miss a conversation.Visit careerdownloads.com for more episodes and resources. TranscriptionManuel Martinez: Welcome everyone, my name is Manuel Martinez and this is another episode of Career Downloads. For each episode I basically hit the refresh button, bring on a different guest to learn more about their background and their experiences to help you uncover any actionable advice that you c...
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    1 h y 29 m
  • Building a Sales Career Through Authentic Relationships with Rebekah Panepinto | Ep055
    Jan 13 2026
    Episode Information Show NotesWhat happens when a drummer who played for 10,000 people realizes the music business won’t pay the bills? Rebekah Panepinto shares her unconventional journey from Nashville musician to successful Account Executive, proving that your next career move might come from the least expected place.This conversation goes deep on how relationships trump resumes, why being visible matters more than being perfect, and how asking better questions opens doors you didn’t know existed.Guest BackgroundRebekah Panepinto is an Account Executive and podcast host who has built her sales career by prioritizing authentic relationships over transactions. After pursuing music as a drummer for Grammy-nominated artists, she pivoted to tech sales where she discovered her talent for building partnerships. Her journey from healthcare IT to global software consulting shows how following trusted relationships creates better outcomes than chasing job titles.Episode HighlightsThe Pivot MomentRebekah earned just $150 playing drums for 10,000 people while getting paid more per day as a nanny. That moment at 21 forced her to Google “best jobs in Nashville” and discover healthcare IT—launching an unexpected career path.Zero to Sales HeroWithout any sales experience, Rebekah got recruited by a bandmate who saw intangibles in her that she didn’t see herself. He taught her the fundamentals while she brought natural relationship-building skills that can’t be taught.Female Drummer AdvantageBeing a female drummer in a male-dominated music industry prepared Rebekah for tech sales in ways she never expected. It taught her to believe she could do anything and to never back down from male-dominated spaces.The Everyone’s-a-Prospect TrapEarly in her sales career, Rebekah believed everyone on every flight and elevator was a potential customer. Learning to properly qualify prospects saved companies from bleeding money on bad-fit customers.Podcasting Beats NetworkingTraditional networking events create forgettable exchanges. Podcasting builds authentic relationships where people share vulnerable moments and create lasting connections.Continuous Learning PhilosophyGrowing up homeschooled taught Rebekah how to love learning as a lifelong journey. Now she dedicates an hour every morning to podcasts and audiobooks, absorbing insights from business leaders while working out.Key Takeaways1. Follow relationships, not job descriptions. Every one of Rebekah’s career moves came through trusted connections2. Personal branding is non-negotiable. Being visible and consistent makes you memorable when opportunities arise3. Quality relationships beat transactional wins. Nobody should dread your outreach because you only call for the check4. Learn from everything. Even finance podcasts teach you about newsletter strategies and content creation5. Going all-in creates mastery. Whether it’s scuba diving or sales, full commitment accelerates learningResources Mentioned– Tom Bilyeu’s Impact Theory Podcast– Ramit Sethi’s Money for Couples– Antifragile by Nassim TalebListen to the full episode to hear how Rebekah builds multi-channel touchpoints with prospects, why she’d choose relationship quality over quota-hitting, and what she learned from being capped at her first sales job.Released: January 13, 2026Subscribe to Career Downloads for weekly conversations with tech professionals sharing their career journeys. TranscriptManuel Martinez: Welcome everyone, my name is Manuel Martinez, and this is another episode of Career Downloads, where each episode I basically hit the refresh button, bring on a different guest to learn more about their background and their experiences, to help you uncover any actionable advice that you can use as you’re managing your own career. So I’m excited for today’s episode. I have with me Rebecca Panepinto, and she is she’s an account executive, and she does a lot of, she also has her own podcast,
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    1 h y 6 m
  • Networking Your Way Into Your Dream Role with Chelsey Bonilla | Ep054
    Jan 6 2026
    Episode Information Show NotesBreaking into a major tech company requires more than submitting applications online. Chelsey Bonilla shares how strategic networking, intentional preparation, and genuine curiosity helped her land an account executive role at Gartner, despite not having a traditional technical background.Guest Background:Chelsey Bonilla is an Account Executive at Gartner, one of the world’s leading research and advisory companies. A Las Vegas native and UNLV double alum, she built her career through operations, IT staffing, startup experience, and project management before finding her current role. She’s an active member of SIM (Society of Information Management) Las Vegas, where she volunteers and builds relationships within the tech community.Episode Highlights:Non-Traditional Path to ITChelsey’s career didn’t follow the expected route. Starting in operations and moving through various roles, she found herself drawn to IT despite lacking technical credentials. Her willingness to ask “I don’t understand” became a strength rather than a weakness.Strategic Networking That WorksWhen Chelsey became obsessed with working at Gartner, she didn’t just apply online. She researched everyone attending a SIM networking event, showed up early, and made genuine connections. That preparation led to a phone call about an opportunity that wasn’t even posted yet.The Power of PreparationBefore networking events, Chelsey researches attendees on LinkedIn, follows them strategically, and comes prepared with questions. She calls it “cyber stalking”—and it works.Surviving Seven Rounds of InterviewsLarge organizations have rigorous interview processes for good reason. Chelsey shares what it took to get through seven interviews at Gartner and why each round reinforced that she was on the right path.Key Takeaways:Ask questions freely, even when you don’t have technical knowledgePrepare intentionally for every networking opportunityBuild genuine relationships within professional organizationsResearch people before you meet themTrust the rigorous interview processes at companies you admireGive recruiters the information they need to advocate for youVolunteer and give back to your professional communityConnect with Chelsey Bonilla:https://www.linkedin.com/in/chelseybonilla/Listen to Career Downloads:Available on all major podcast platforms TranscriptionManuel Martinez: Welcome everyone, my name is Manuel Martinez and this is another episode of Career Downloads where each episode I basically hit the refresh button, bring on a different guest to learn more about their background and their experiences, to really try and uncover any actionable advice that you can use as you’re managing your own career. So I’m excited for today’s episode because I have with me Chelsey Bonilla and her and I have, over the last, probably close to a year now, have developed a both professional and personal relationship, just kind of getting to know each other. And ike I’ve mentioned before, there’s different areas of technology. So she didn’t feel that she works in technology, but she really does. So again, I just kind of want to help, I hope that her story kind of helps dispel some of those myths. And we get to learn a little bit more of how she’s navigated it, and hopefully find some things that will be helpful for you. So with that, I’ll go ahead and introduce Chelsea. Chelsey Bonilla: Thank you, Manny. I appreciate all the time and consideration and overthinking that you’ve allowed me to have over the last year. Manuel Martinez: And I appreciate that it kind of, it took time because you’re not the only person that, it takes a little bit to be like, “Well, wait a minute, why me? Why my story?” it’s not something that you do all the time, right? I don’t see you on podcasts all the time or kind of speaking out publicly. So I think this is good because I’ve had a couple of guests like that.
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    1 h y 7 m
  • The Career Built on Course Corrections with Ruben Sarino | Ep053
    Dec 30 2025
    Episode Information Show NotesWhat happens when you stop planning your career and start asking better questions?Ruben Sarino didn’t set out to co-found an AI security company. The path from military kid bouncing between six countries to RiskHorizon AI co-founder included selling car parts, packaging California honey, working Apple retail, cold calling at CrowdStrike, and several stops in between.None of it was planned. All of it mattered.What You’ll LearnGrowing up in Japan showed Ruben what technology could do when it actually worked. Tapping cards to ride trains and buy things felt seamless. Visiting developing countries showed him the same problems without the same solutions. That contrast planted a seed: technology should solve real problems for real people.But Ruben didn’t study computer science. He studied business. His first exposure to entrepreneurship came through a car parts manufacturer where he learned the difference between pushing products and solving problems. Then came a honey business he fell into by chance, where terrible packaging met great product. Apple retail taught him how great companies operate. CrowdStrike as an SDR gave him front-row seats to hypergrowth and mentors who showed him what came next.Each stop built skills that transferred to the next one.Key InsightsOn Getting Started: “If you know too much, you will never start.” Ruben talks about the danger of over-researching and why ignorance sometimes helps you take the first step.On Career Direction: His annual self-check-in doesn’t ask “what do I want to do?” It asks “how do I want to feel next year?” From there, he works backward to figure out what needs to change.On Problem-Solving: Whether it’s car parts, cybersecurity, or AI, Ruben looks for the underlying problem before building solutions. Not everything needs AI. Some things just need better execution.On Mentorship: The CrowdStrike account executives who took time to show him what happened after the handoff shaped his trajectory. He didn’t formally ask them to be mentors – he asked good questions and stayed curious.On Risk: Being comfortable with change helps, but it’s not required. What matters is believing you can course correct if things don’t work out the way you planned.About Ruben SarinoRuben Sarino is co-founder of RiskHorizon AI. His career spans car parts manufacturing, honey business, Apple retail, cybersecurity sales at CrowdStrike, workforce intelligence startups, and healthcare technology. He’s comfortable with change, believes in transferable skills, and thinks most people overthink their next move.Connect with Ruben on LinkedIn:Subscribe to Career DownloadsNew episodes drop every week featuring tech leaders, CIOs, and professionals sharing their career journeys and the lessons they learned along the way.Website: https://careerdownloads.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/career-downloadsYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@careerdownloadsTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@careerdownloadsInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/careerdownloadsFaceBook: https://www.facebook.com/people/Career-Downloads/61561144531249 TranscriptionManuel Martinez: Welcome everyone, my name is Manuel Martinez, and this is another episode of Career Downloads, where each episode I basically hit the refresh button, bring on a different guest, to learn more about their background and their experiences, to really help uncover any actionable advice that you can use as you’re managing your own career. So I’m excited for today’s episode. I have with me Ruben Sarino, and him and I met at a networking event. We got to talking, just learning about kind of what he’s doing. He was asking me what I was doing. You know, we connected on LinkedIn, got to know each other, our backgrounds. And I think he has a lot to offer, and there should be a lot of good stories, a lot of good information that people can use, you know, whether you’re just starting out or you’ve been in the fi...
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    1 h y 16 m
  • From Geology Research to Cybersecurity Leadership: Aakin Patel | Ep052
    Dec 23 2025
    Episode Information Show NotesSometimes the best careers are the ones you never planned. Aakin Patel went to school for geology. He spent years studying plate tectonics and doing computational modeling. The plan was academia. But grad school revealed something important. The academic life he imagined wasn’t the reality he wanted. So he pivoted. He took his Unix skills from graduate research and landed a job as a system administrator. Just temporary. Just while he figured out his next move. That temporary job turned into a 20+ year career in technology and cybersecurity. In This Episode: Aakin shares his journey from geology to becoming a cybersecurity consultant who advises governments and organizations on strategic implementation. He talks about working at Brookhaven National Labs, dealing with the unique security challenges of international scientific research, and building cybersecurity programs before the field had its current name. The conversation digs into the skills that matter most: problem-solving, communication, and the ability to bridge technical and business worlds. Aakin explains why being able to “dumb things down” is actually proof you understand something deeply, and why teaching others became crucial to his leadership success. You’ll also hear about the day his boss literally put him on a plane to management training, why he initially hated it, and how that moment changed his career trajectory. Key Takeaways: – Career pivots don’t have to be permanent disasters—they can become opportunities – Problem-solving skills transfer across completely different fields – Being the bridge between technical and business teams is a superpower – Learning to communicate complex ideas simply is a leadership essential – Technical burnout is real, and strategic roles can be the answer – Teaching others tests whether you truly understand something – Your ability to build and lead teams matters more than any single technical skill – Reputation and relationships open more doors than resumes About Aakin Patel: Aakin Patel is a cybersecurity consultant specializing in strategic implementation for governments and organizations. His background includes geology and geophysics research, Unix system administration, and cybersecurity leadership at national laboratories. He’s built security teams from scratch and helped organizations implement security programs at strategic levels. His mixed background gives him a unique ability to translate between technical complexity and business needs. TranscriptionManuel Martinez: Welcome everyone, my name is Manuel Martinez, and this is another episode of Career Downloads, where each episode I basically hit the refresh button and bring on a different guest to learn more about their background and their experiences, to help uncover any actionable advice that you can use as you’re managing your own career. So for today’s episode, I’m very excited. I have with me Aakin Patel, and he is a consultant in the cybersecurity space. We’ve had some conversations about, you know, some of the things he’s done earlier on, how he kind of got into, you know, this field, and just the things that he’s done along the way. So I’m interested to kind of get to know him and how he managed his career a little bit more. And with that, I’ll go ahead and introduce Aakin. I appreciate you coming on, Aakin. Aakin Patel: Thank you, it’s good to be here. Manuel Martinez: So one of the things that I kind of start with all the guests is if you don’t mind telling me just a little bit about where you grew up, and then eventually kind of what led you either into the technology field, some people, you know, they fall into it later on. So maybe you started in a different career field. So again, just kind of a little bit of that background about yourself. Aakin Patel: Oh, yeah, so I grew up in the Northeast US in the New York, New Jersey area.
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    1 h y 8 m
  • Communication Over Technical Skills: Simon Robert’s Journey from Age 7 to MSP Owner | Ep051
    Dec 16 2025
    Episode Information Show NotesFrom Age 7 to MSP Owner: Simon Robert’s IT Journey Simon Robert’s IT career started earlier than most, at just 7 years old, he was already fixing computers his father brought home. Now, as President of Novbox in Las Vegas, Simon runs a managed service provider that helps businesses stay secure and operational. In this episode, Simon shares the honest reality of running an IT business. He talks about the stress of being a “one-man army” for years, why admitting “I don’t know” actually builds more trust than pretending to be an expert, and how communication saves client relationships when things go wrong. Episode Highlights: Starting Young Simon began his IT journey at age 7, disassembling and repairing broken computers his father brought home. This early hands-on experience gave him confidence and skills that would shape his entire career. The One-Man Army Problem For 10 years, Simon ran his business alone. He describes the impossible stress of choosing between multiple emergency calls happening simultaneously and why having a business partner changed everything. Honest Communication Wins When clients leave or when something goes wrong, Simon picks up the phone immediately. He shares why confronting problems early, even at 7pm, prevents bigger issues the next morning. Break/Fix vs MSP Model Simon explains the fundamental difference between being an IT firefighter and providing managed services. The MSP model eliminates billing drama and gives clients peace of mind. IT Specialization Reality Just because someone works “in IT” doesn’t mean they do everything. Simon uses the electrician vs plumber analogy to explain why IT professionals specialize and why that’s perfectly okay. The Vegas Tech Community After moving from Quebec to Las Vegas years ago, Simon has been actively building connections in the local tech community. He believes in turning LinkedIn connections into real friendships. Key Takeaways: 1. Admitting “I don’t know” and asking for help builds more trust than pretending to be an expert in everything 2. Communication is priority #1 – confront problems immediately instead of avoiding them 3. Having a business partner or team prevents burnout and enables business growth 4. The MSP model provides stability for both provider and client compared to break/fix 5. Building genuine relationships, both online and in person, creates lasting professional networks 6. Know your strengths and confidently refer out what you don’t do well 7. When clients leave, call them to understand why instead of hiding from the conversation About Simon Robert: Simon Robert is the President of Novbox, an IT managed service provider in Las Vegas. With over 30 years of experience starting from age 7, Simon specializes in helping businesses maintain secure and reliable IT infrastructure through managed services. Listen to learn how honest communication, genuine relationships, and knowing when to ask for help can transform your career – whether you’re running your own business or working in corporate IT. TranscriptionManuel Martinez: Welcome everyone, my name is Manuel Martinez and this is another episode of Career Downloads. Where each episode I basically hit the refresh button, bring on a different guest to learn more about their experiences and their background, to really try and uncover any actionable advice that you can use as you’re managing your own career. So I’m excited for today’s episode, I have with me Simon Robert. And this is a very interesting story, so him and I actually connected on LinkedIn, we actually met in person, you know, just in an informal setting, got to know each other, to know about each other a little bit more about his career. And he has kind of established his own business. So again, this is going to be something different than all of the other traditional ones where you kno...
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    1 h y 24 m