One of the great joys for those of us involved in the Frank and Stan Chat is that some amazing educators are willing to spend some time chatting to us about the things that interest them. On occasions, we feel as though we know quite a bit about their area of interest, but today was slightly different. We were joined by Mark Philips, a former Senior HMI and National Lead for Music, who was able to draw on a vast range of experience and insight. The chat is useful for those with an interest in the arts, particularly, music but it will also be useful for those who worry about a balanced curriculum and whether opportunity is really for all.

Stan gets things moving by considering the changes that will need to be made by schools to accommodate the demands of Martin's Law. Mark then reflects on the city of Manchester, its vibrancy, its welcome and the way it has transformed into an economic success story. Frank then considers the place of 'carousels' in the school curriculum. This is where Mark really comes to the fore.

Enjoy and share.

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This is a really important weekly chat because every year we invite Carolyn Eyre, a professional colleague well informed in the area of child protection and safeguarding. Her chats always cover areas that we have missed, and highlights changes that are afoot. She believes we are at the start of a storm, and many appear unaware that the storm is coming.

Stan considers the likely impact of the government setting an expected national standard of 75% for children to reach 'a good level of development' in Early Years. He references Goodhart's law, which states, "when a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure". Carolyn then explains what changes and proposed laws, currently being progressed through Parliament, will have a significant impact on Keeping Children Safe. She also unpicks skilfully Ofsted's weaknesses in how safeguarding is inspected. Frank then considers the research published by the University of Manchester in October 2025, 'Lost learning: Prevalence, inequalities and outcomes of internal exclusion in mainstream secondary schools' by Emma Thornton, Qiqi Cheng, Ola Demkowicz and Neil Humphrey, which examines the reasons for isolation, who are more often given it and its impact on those students and those who are not. The results are surprising and challenging.

You would expect us to say how good the chat is, but I suspect there is quite a lot in this discussion which would be of interest to many in schools, parents/carers and education leaders in general.

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The 18th Spotlight edition of the Frank and Stan Chat looks at assessment and what digital leadership involves when we chat with Rosie Clayton. Rosie, until recently, was a key player in the Re-Thinking Assessment Group and has recently moved into a senior role at the Transforming Learning Group.

We consider the development of new approaches to assessment and the future role of AI. We also revisit the amazing work Rosie led on in creating a Learner Profile that provides a mechanism for a fuller range of skills, expertise, experiences, and interests to be recorded.

https://rethinkingassessment.com/learner-profile/

We then shift on to her new role and consider some of the challenges in progressing a digital shift at individual schools.

A great chat. Hope you enjoy it.

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Frank met Chris Jones, CEO of SMART Curriculum, a couple of years ago. We've been trying to secure a guest slot on the Frank and Stan Chat for a little while. He's a very busy man, so we are delighted to have him join us for what proves to be an illuminating and far-reaching discussion.

Stan gets things rolling by questioning the central costs of trusts compared to those of the local authorities in the past. Chris is well-informed on such matters and explains that comparisons are tricky because the actual personal salaries are not made public. Frank considers the growth of specialist subject advisers on permanent contracts in central teams and wonders the merits of this approach.

Chris then reflects on the encouraging news that more political parties including the government, want to strengthen the public perception of vocational pathways. Chris prefers to use the word 'professional' rather than 'vocational'. We then consider how important it is to view this issue across all phases of education, rather than it being seen as a Post-16 issue. Stan and Frank then gain valuable insights into the number of L2 and L3 courses available and the proportion that are 'vocational'.

Frank closes the chat by reflecting on a paper he wrote this week about the School Curriculum Award and how it resonated with Chris' weekly newsletter that covered the curriculum and accountability developments in Estonia.

Really interesting stuff, and makes clear to both Stan and Frank how fortunate they are to have such brilliant guests each week. It is some of the best professional development they experience and it's free!!!

Enjoy.

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It is a great pleasure to have Dave Rzeznik, a former HMI for many years with a keen interest in the provision and outcomes of the most vulnerable pupils, join us as our guest this week. We have been trying to secure a slot with Dave for quite some time, so it is great to have time to discuss the things that have caught our eyes this week.

Stan kicks off by considering the new role of the nominee being introduced by Ofsted as part of their attempt to de-escalate the tension felt during their inspections. Inevitably, Stan finds a gaping hole in their thinking.

Dave then considers the best practice guidance being produced by the DfE to assist in the development of specialist special education needs provision. He believes there is a lot of good intention but a lack of expertise and funding to enable it to work well in all places. We also consider how particular schools and trusts may not be willing to share their expertise too much due to the risk it presents in losing their staff.

Frank then reflects on the role of the Lay Inspector on the early versions of an Ofsted Framework and how they were meant to bring a non-education perspective on the evidence gathering. He believes there is value for school self evaluation in utilising a non-educationalist to consider how smoothly a school is working.

There is a lot of chat about Frank's unwillingness to pay his way, which is grossly exaggerated but it is an enjoyable 30 or so minutes. We hope it has some uplift and benefit for your work.

Enjoy

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