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Frank and Stan have been working hard to secure a slot in Paul Cherpeau's diary for close on a year. As the CEO of the Liverpool Chamber of Commerce he's a very busy colleague. Frank and Paul are members of the independent Liverpool Education Board and have discussed how best to improve the employability of young people in the city on many occasions.

The chat does not disappoint as Paul explains how the Chamber works to support local businesses in the Liverpool City Region by providing a strong networking community, advocating for their interests with government bodies, offering business support services like international trade assistance and skills development, and promoting inward investment to foster economic growth and create jobs. The Chamber understands its wider role in ensuring local people gain the knowledge, skills and attitudes to enter employment as well as to have an enjoyable and fulfilling life.

Paul was at Everton FC's new stadium yesterday, celebrating 175 years of the Chamber in the city with the Princess Royal. He explains how the Chamber has evolved and is continuing to play a crucial role in regenerating the city. He has some interesting insights into the role of entrepreneurship and how those who become successful without formal qualifications are important but they are the exception rather than the rule.

It's a fascinating chat. We are convinced many will gain a deeper understanding of the importance of effective business and education engagement for citizens of all ages.

He's agreed to come back in 2026.

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Well, who would have predicted the weekly Frank and Stan Chat would reach its seventh academic year. Back in May 2020, the two gents were unable to meet for a beer, so decided to chat using Zoom and press the record button as a means of saving our thoughts on the ongoing pandemic. Putting it on Youtube without knowing what we were doing enabled viewers to watch and follow. We are now at edition 231, with a further 16 specialist SPOTLIGHT editions so we are getting close to 250! With guests lined up into 2026, all being well, we will be heading towards 300 by the end of 2026.

We are privileged to be joined by Dennis Sherwood for this edition. Dennis was our first SPOTLIGHT guest in July 2023. It was one of the most interesting yet deeply worrying editions because he explained how and when he started to lose confidence in the work of OFQUAL. Look it up.

Dennis explains how he has felt while students have recently received their external national examination results and why he feels so disappointed with OFQUAL especially the complaint system. Stan then considers the calculation that by the not so new Behaviour Tzar that the Behaviour crisis 'means every pupil loses 45 days of learning a year'. Frank then considers whether the focus on Islamist terrorism is the right one for the Prevent programme and for the recent Ofsted training when the DfE's own data suggests something rather different.

Topical and challenging. Hope you enjoy it.

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The final weekly Frank and Stan Chat chat of the 2024-2025 academic year sees Lisa Lea-Weston return to discuss what's caught her eye this week as well as update us on her work on supervision, Lisa was a guest last year and made a very positive impression in the focus her work provides on supporting senior leaders. Interestingly, the focus of her work is now developing to offer supervision to make more staff, with different levels of responsibility, across schools and trusts. Our chat considers how much senior education leaders in government and those in parliament at high office might benefit from some supervision support. If you know that this is currently offered please let us know.

Stan reflects on the television series "House' which stars Hugh Laurie and considers whether the diagnostic approach he uses in his imaginary role might be useful for resolving some engrained education issues. Frank then considers the differences he has noticed in how education in Finland is offered, how it creates a high skilled and highly valued profession for the most able and talented. Lisa reflects on the changing nature of the support she is offering and how it is evenly split between those who are currently experiencing high levels of distress as opposed to those who want to identify an approach that can help them cope better with challenges when they emerge.

It's a cracking chat and emphasises once again how fortunate we are to have such wonderful guests who offer some of the best free professional development for us and we hope for the viewers and listeners.

We will be recording three SPOTLIGHT editions of our chat in the next few weeks covering Tutoring, Human Resources and the accuracy of our examination system (or not) and will release these during August and early September. We are back on the weekly chat for 2025-2026 on 10th September.

Best wishes

Frank and Stan

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This week we are delighted to have John Malynn OBE, a former senior Civil Servant at the DfE and Ofsted joining us. He is well versed in the delicate discussions that take place, often behind closed doors, in ensuring policy is converted into practice. With some major policy changes this week being announced by the government concerning welfare reform, he is well placed to comment.

Stan starts proceedings by reflecting on some Y6 pupils he saw locally wearing their 'Leavers 2025' sweatshirts and wondered whether this was signalling too early that the end of their Primary phase of education was now over. We consider how best to use the time between the end of the SATs period and the close of the academic year and whether the examinations are simply unacceptable in terms of providing a balanced education experience.

John then reflects on the challenges the Labour government has faced and wonders whether Sir Simon Case was correct when he recently identfied a lack of clarity on the communication front. With an important shift in the welfare reforms this week John wonders whether there is sufficient clarity on what the education reforms are and whether there has been sufficient listening to those delivering the service. Having a large parliamentary majority is clearly not enough to win all arguments.

Frank then considers an interesting report from EPI this week called 'Post 16 study programmes – understanding student choices and aspirations'. The report considers the pathways taken by students who were subject to Centre Assessed Grades (CAGs) during Covid. They recommend that 'GCSE English and maths results below grade 4 should only restrict access to level 3 courses where key elements of students’ main study programme are dependent on proficiency to this level' and that many students wanted flexibility in the structure and choices of courses. This presents challenges for the T Level moving forward.

The chat ends with us all reflecting on the turmoil at Ofsted and whether there is effective communication from senior managers. All three of us had worked with a former HMCI who was willing to front-up and was rooted in inspection methodology. We felt that this experience and focus might be the missing ingredient.

Enjoy!

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This week the two gents welcome back Rebecca Smith, a Headteacher in a large secondary school in Greater Manchester. Rebecca has been a guest a few times before and was a guest on our 100th edition of the chat in April 2022 alongside Prof Andy Hargreaves and her husband Neil Smith.

Frank worked closely with Rebecca when she was a principal at one of the Coop Trust academies, where he witnessed her amazing leadership skills in turning around a school, that was fairly dysfunctional, into an amazing place for young people to learn and for amazing staff to teach.

The chat starts with Stan considering how best to keep experienced staff invigorated and enthused about their job. He compares how this is tackled in education compared to football. He wonders whether secondments are the answer. Rebecca explains how she undertakes this challenge in her own setting and then considers the challenges that come from outside of the role and how this affects different staff in different ways.

Rebecca then reflects on an article last Sunday in a newspaper which explained how a Boarding school was reverting to giving young boarders access to a landline rather than provide free access to their smart phones. We then consider how effective any approaches that ban use during the school day (as in nearly all schools) where control of their use is unfettered in some households.

Frank then considers the challenges that are looming for school leaders in a lack of timeliness from the government. He reflects on the Covid period when guidance from the DfE usually arrived at 6pm on a Friday and then had to be considered and then shared by school leaders with staff in good time for the following week. With delays to the publication of the KCSIE guidance, delays to Ofsted Framework proposals and uncertainty over the timing of the Francis Curriculum Review it is going to be a very challenging autumn term. He notes that Leicestershire schools start their summer break in two week's time!

It's a relaxed and enjoyable chat for us. We hope it is useful and interesting for the viewers/listeners.

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A few years after Frank and Stan started their teaching careers they became aware of an education author called Pie Corbett. As there was very little guidance in the area of reading and writing Pie's books became a staple diet for professional development. Now, with over 200 publications, including the seminal 'Talk for Writing' and 'Cats, Hats and Hippos', Pie's extensive and varied career makes him an excellent guest. He doesn't disappoint.

Stan considers his wonderful holiday last week which gave him time to reflect on leadership in sport. He mourns the loss of enigmatic leaders and considers how some current managers often lack the clarity of thought and individual approach. Pie then considers a wonderful visit he made to a Primary school in Handsworth where under fresh leadership the school has been transformed. He explains how attention to detail and a consistent personal approach has led to a dramatic improvement in children's experiences and outcomes. Frank closes the chat by considering how important key teachers were in his time at school and how one in particular, Dave Milne, made history relevant, fun and interesting. As it was World Teacher Day it seemed an appropriate way to reflect on the amazing teachers we have been fortunate to work with and observe.

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