Greg welcomes back Patrick Winn to the podcast, an intrepid writer and expert on all things dark and shady in Southeast Asia. He previously appeared on the show to discuss his book “Hello Shadowlands,” and he returns to explain his new work, “Narcotopia: In Search of the Asian Drug Cartel That Survived The CIA.” Patrick begins by explaining the unique political situation that the country of Myanmar is in right now. Besides a literal civil war, portions of the country, such as the ‘Wa State’ in the northeast, are essentially autonomous, self-governing areas. Patrick explains that free travel in and out of the area is generally not permitted, and if you just showed up, you would be detained and interrogated by the Wa State Army.

Next, Greg asked the genesis of Patrick’s new book. Patrick explains that he’s been fascinated by the ‘state within a state’ for over a decade and has struggled to find an opportunity to interview any important Wa leaders, due to the fact that the Wa State is notorious for being a manufacturer of methamphetamine pills. In fact, some prominent Wa leaders are actually wanted by the U.S. DEA. Patrick recounts a fascinating story of how he managed through an intermediary to finally make contact, and the resulting interview and subsequent research constitutes the backbone of his book.

The guys continue with a twisting tale of the DEA and CIA’s surprising relationship with this mysterious subculture inside of the already complex state of Myanmar, and the effect its having on Thailand’s middle class, which is a huge consumer of the infamous drugs that the country produces.

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