There might not be a more loaded term in beer and chocolate than “craft.” What does it mean, who gets to use it, and who gets to decide who does or doesn’t fall under its umbrella? Is craft about size and ownership? Is it about processes and ingredients? Is it some other ineffable quality? There is no perfect answer, and the parameters and stakes are different for both beer and chocolate, but it’s a fascinating topic for discussion.

In this episode I’m talking with Clay Gordon, one of the most respected names in the world of craft chocolate, to discuss the meaning of craft, how the term’s usage and meaning differ in the beer and chocolate worlds, how tasting and judging have influenced beer and chocolate differently, and, toward the end, how we both approach chocolate pairings with beer and other beverages.

You can learn more about Clay and his work at his website The Chocolate Life.

You can watch/listen to his webcast Pod Save Chocolate here.

We did a follow-up to this episode on Pod Save, which you can listen to here.

You can purchase my book Pairing Beer & Chocolate: A Guide to Bringing the Flavors of Craft Beer and Craft Chocolate Together in the Bean to Barstool shop or on Amazon.

Check out David's new book Pairing Beer & Chocolate: A Guide to Bringing the Flavors of Craft Beer and Craft Chocolate Together.

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