Fascinated by German football from a young age, Kit Holden has carved a unique career since he's moved to Berlin.

A freelance journalist writing in both German and English for titles such as Der Tagesspiegel and The Athletic, Holden has recently published two outstanding books.

Scheisse! We're Going Up, tells the story of Union Berlin through the stories of Unioner dating back to the days of the DDR. Played In Germany, published in June of this year, explores the football history and cultures of the host cities of Euro 2024.

In this conversation we cover:

• Kit's origins in German football, and moving to Berlin (4:45)
• How Berlin has changed during Kit's time in the city (7:03)
• Whether Kit's relationship with Union has changed the more he covers the team professionally (10:38)
• The difference in writing for a native German audience, and English-speaking titles (15:48)
• The process of writing Scheisse! (18:13)
• Perceptions of Union in English speaking countries (24:13)
• The matchday experience at the Alte Fösterei (30:44)
• The diversity of fan cultures in Germany (35:45)
• Why Bavarian culture has become a byword for German culture in other parts of the world (39:10)
• Leipzig's role in the foundation of German football (42:36)
• The unease many people in Germany feel around nationalism and football (48:23)
• The role of football clubs in fighting the emerging far right presence in the East of Germany (53:22)

Buy Scheisse! We're Going Up! here: https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/scheisse-we-re-going-up-the-unexpected-rise-of-berlin-s-rebel-football-club-kit-holden/6698522

Buy Played in Germany here: https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/played-in-germany-a-footballing-journey-through-a-nation-s-soul-kit-holden/7592294

Podcast cover designed by Graeme Sapsed. Need graphic design support, reach out to Graeme on his LinkedIn account https://www.linkedin.com/in/graemesapsed/

About The Bundesletter Podcast

The Bundesletter Podcast is an interview programme featuring the expert insight of observer of German football and its culture.

We'll hear from journalists, historians, analysts and fans of fußball on their experiences of following and learning the game.

This series is a companion to the Bundesletter, a weekly newsletter written, edited and published by Tom Ritchie, a journalist based in Berlin.

You can subscribe to the newsletter here: bundesletter.substack.com.