In this episode we hear the second half of the conversation with Franklin County Public Health Director, Scott LaVigne, in which he shares his views on the role of properly addressing behavioral health, providing a positive patient experience, and the importance of partnerships, and how these elements, and others, work together in order for his team to provide holistic care for patients.

I want to go back a little bit to something you mentioned earlier. So we talked, you talked about the needs-based care, what I call the contextualized care and Medicaid is very focused on serving the whole patient, right, which includes some of those social determinants of health. And, and we've talked about access and access to behavioral health is really important. How's Franklin County Health Partner Department partnering or attempting to partner with other agencies to address these needs?

Well, one of the things that when I first came down here that that I just said we really needed to do was get our medical staff. And by that I mean everyone from the person that greets somebody when they walk in the door and checks them in to the person that works through everything with their, their claims and submitting and all the financial pieces of all that interaction from start to finish and everything in between that we had a trauma informed and, and with a focus on integrating behavioral health and, and behavioral health is a broad term. I should probably break that down because it's used a lot in different contexts. I don't look at it as a way of, of sanitizing mental health. So I look at it as a collection of mental health and substance use disorder and, and really what we wanted to focus on here and it and it goes to the social or social determinants of health. We wanted to focus on the whole patient, not just one aspect of that patient. I know I don't think I've ever heard of patients say that they felt their life was better because they met all their HEDIS metrics.

Me either, by the way.

But what, what we did and what I, I did do almost immediately was we purchased an outcome measurement tool because I knew that one of the things that we want to do is we didn't want somebody to have all their screenings done, you know, meet all those metrics like that on the healthcare side, but have housing insecurity and be living in domestic violence and to have substance abuse and mental health problems. Because I know as a mental health provider and a substance abuse provider in my background history that most of the people that show up in emergency rooms with preventable emergency room presentations are people that have mental health and substance use disorders and other things on board or have experience childhood trauma. So we knew that if we didn't look at that whole picture and integrate that in, we were going to have a hard time doing that. So we pulled an outcome measurement tool from behavioral health. It's called the DLA 20 and it, it focuses on 20 areas of a human's existence. And we wanted to make sure that if somebody experienced a good positive health outcomes, that translated into all these other areas as well. And that became our outcome measurement tool. So that was a big piece of what we focused on. Let's see. The other thing I mentioned already was we wanted to do more screening. We, you know, we do screenings routinely as a health department. We have to spend more time with patients because of our funding than providers in the community do. That is a blessing because we have budgeted time to take into account all of what we need to do, and that fits very nicely with a more holistic approach. So it really wasn't causing us to suffer a lot in the volume department. And we focused all our efforts. And I told everybody here, you know, one of the things we want to focus on is the equation of value. And yeah, you got to have a certain amount of volume to make that equation...

Today we hear an important conversation about the role of local government in population health and wellness. Scott LaVigne, Public Health Director of the Franklin County Health Department in North Carolina, talks with CHESS vice president, Josh Vire, about the broad scope of work his team is responsible for and how they are successfully tackling numerous initiatives, including managed Medicaid, to be a safety net provider for community health needs.

Scott LaVigne, welcome to the Move to Value podcast.

Oh, it's great to be here.

We're we're really excited and looking forward to the conversation. Scott, as a public health director, you're responsible for all aspects of the Franklin County Health department from the clinical to environmental services and you balance state mandated services. So for the audience that things like vaccines, basic health screenings, environmental services, and with the expectations of Franklin County government, all while dealing with the critical workforce shortages. Health departments are considered safety net providers in most of North Carolina's counties. Can you share how your team is addressing the specific healthcare needs of the Medicaid population in the county?

Sure. Well, after hearing all that, I'm, I'm getting tired. Yeah. That that is a we have a lot on our plate here at the health department and a lot of they're, they're not very often competing interests. But you know, I think what we look at when we talk about healthcare services in general and the overall health of the county, we don't break it up into per SE Medicaid population, although we do focus on that as part of the work that we do. But we, we have 2 broad missions and one is obviously population health and that it cuts across all payers and everyone in the community. And then the other role, which you correctly identified as we're a safety net provider. So in addition to putting out a lot of population health initiatives, we're also a provider and we're involved in a lot of the initiatives that all the providers in the community are involved in. So, you know, that gives us a unique position and we get to tailor some of our initiatives as a healthcare provider based on what we know the community health needs are. So it's, it's, I'm going to be honest, it's not very easy to do all of that. I would say we, as I said, we don't just focus on the Medicaid population, but we do have a lot of initiatives that cut across all of that.

Great. What are the specific issues that that I think you have a lot of experience in close to 30 years of behavioral health experience with much of that coming in New York. Can you describe the changes in public health that you see in your career and maybe also for the audience contrast the differences between the public health in New York and North Carolina. What are the differences you've seen?

Sure. Well, when I was in New York, I was a a mental hygiene director for a county and, and when I came to North Carolina, I became a public health director. But we were actually in the same building in New York with our public health programs and we had a very close relationship with that program. But there are some significant differences, but a lot of similarities. You know, the some of the big differences though relate to some of what we're talking about. Medicaid managed care being a big one in New York. Medicaid managed care started first with medical care and then they brought behavioral health and IDD into the picture. In North Carolina, they did it the exact opposite. And so that that was a, a big difference. When I came down here, we had a mental hygiene system that had already made the conversion and was and, and medical care, which is what I was now in, we had to make that shift. So, I would say that was a, a big difference. But in New York, most of the public health agencies had gotten out of...

In this episode, we hear the second half of the conversation between Kris Shepard, Senior Vice President at Advocate Health, and CHESS President Dr. Yates Lennon, as they discuss how physician networks and primary care services are the backbone of the value movement in healthcare.

So Chris, welcome back to the Chess Move to Value podcast. Look, look forward to continuing our earlier conversation.

Awesome. Well, had a good time so far and I'm expecting nothing less for the second, second-half.

OK, great. Well, let's start out the second-half here. Just let's talk a little bit about some of some business development goals, both from the lens of the MSOVSO and from Advocate perhaps as well as if I'm an independent physician in the market, whether that's the Carolinas, Georgia, Wisconsin, Illinois, what should I be thinking about? So come at it from both sides.

It's a great, great question. The, the starting point for me is really an acknowledgement that the healthcare industry is changing. And you know, we've, we've talked about change and transformation in healthcare for a long time. So this is I think part of that broad continuum in the future, I expect that there will be increasing, it would be increasingly important for the ambulatory enterprise to take on more of the care delivery then perhaps we have historically it's more and more expensive to build hospitals. I think you, you know, you see a lot of commentators talking about hospitals becoming more focused on kind of higher acuity, higher complexity things. And so you know, they're always going to be here. And we're, you know, we are building broadly in facilities across the advocate enterprise and investing in, in improvements in the facilities. And at the same time, it's going to be increasingly important for the ambulatory enterprise to take to take on more and more. Some of that is is is has a regulatory dimension to it. So for example, CON laws being loosened or removed in in South Carolina, North Carolina, perhaps other places. I think those those kinds of regulatory changes, reimbursement changes that that encourage certain certain types of procedures and certain care to move out of facilities into the ambulatory setting. All those I think point us toward a future where to for a health system we are going to need to be successful in that ambulatory space as well as as as with our facilities. So what does that mean from a physician you know, or a clinical enterprise development lens, a physician partnership lens? I think those relationships become even more important and and in some ways more challenging because there there are a lot of organizations, whether they're payer backed organizations or private equity backed organizations or public companies like an Amazon who are moving into that ambulatory space. There's almost nobody going into the facility areas, you know, not a lot of new money or new entrants, if you will, into in building hospitals, but they're definitely a lot of new entrants rolling up ambulatory practices. So, you know, from a strategic lens advocate can either, you know, choose to focus on, on the facilities or, you know, alternatively, what we've done is, is really geared toward building a significant ambulatory presence. And you know, we, we already have thousands of physicians employed, you know, hundreds and hundreds of clinic sites. We, we have a significant ambulatory presence already. But it's going to it's going to be increasingly important going forward to do that. And I think, you know, some of the some of the discussion we've already had about what's the right relationship within it with a given group and a given specialty is those, those questions become more significant when you think about how the industry is, is trending.

Yeah, Yeah. Let's let's head toward, I mean MSOs/VSOs are networks in and of themselves. But let's talk a little bit about physician...