In this episode of PCC Local Time, produced in collaboration with the Association of Pennsylvania Municipal Management (APMM), host Nancy Hess explores the evolving relationship between universities and their surrounding communities — the so-called “Town Gown” connection.

Our guests — borough managers from three Pennsylvania university towns — reflect on how they navigate both the tension and potential that arise when generations, lifestyles, and values intersect.

From housing and community safety to student engagement and communication, they share real-world stories about how small towns are cultivating vibrant, intergenerational communities where students, residents, and local leaders learn to see each other as partners.

Nicole Sipos — Borough Manager, Indiana Borough, Pennsylvania (Home of Indiana University of Pennsylvania)

• A proud graduate of Indiana University of Pennsylvania (IUP), she holds a degree in Business and has dedicated over two decades to public service within her hometown. Nichole was appointed Borough Manager in January 2023. She oversees a $12 million annual budget and leads strategic initiatives to support community development, infrastructure, and intergovernmental collaboration.
• A lifelong resident of Indiana Borough and a strong advocate for the region, Nichole’s deep ties to both the community and IUP have been instrumental in fostering strong partnerships and transparent communication. One of her most notable recent accomplishments includes managing a $4.1 million renovation of the Borough’s Municipal Building.

Rebecca DeSantis Randall — Borough Manager, Millersville Borough, Pennsylvania (Home of Millersville University)

• Rebecca graduated from Washington College in Chestertown, Maryland, earning a bachelor’s degree in international studies. She went on to receive her Master of Public Administration (MPA) degree from American University in Washington DC. She began her public service career with the International City/County Management Association (ICMA) on both the communications team and then on the career and equity advancement team as a program manager. Following ICMA, Rebecca transitioned to the City of Frederick, Maryland to serve as the City’s first Manager of Equity and Inclusion and a member of the Mayor’s Executive Leadership Team. Currently, Rebecca serves at the Borough Manager in Millersville Borough, PA, managing a community of 8,000 residents.

Jessica Whitley — Assistant to the Borough Manager, State College, Pennsylvania (Home of Pennsylvania State University)

• Jess is a public administrative professional with interest in program design, community engagement, youth advocacy and arts & culture, she is currently serving as the assistant to the Borough Manager in State College, Pennsylvania. Jess holds a 'Bachelor of Fine Arts' and a 'Master of Public Administration' from Syracuse University. A proud member of ICMA since 2022, Jess was a recipient of the prestigious Tranter Leong Fellowship in 2024 and began her journey at the Borough as a Local Government Management Fellow. Jess remains an active member of the SheLeadsGov Committee and the LGMF Alumni Committee. Grateful for the opportunities that have shaped her career, Jess remains deeply committed to serving the public and positively impact others.

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00:00 – Introduction: The

In the first MuniSquare Book

discussioin Podcast, colleagues dive into Paul Bloom’s provocative book Against Empathy. Bloom argues that emotional empathy can mislead us, create bias, and open us to manipulation. Instead, he proposes cultivating rational compassion.

Our panel wrestles with the book’s claims—exploring empathy’s role in public service, the ethics of neutrality, manipulation of emotions in politics, and whether empathy can help us navigate today’s polarized climate.

Dr. Tom Bryer is Pegasus professor in the School of Public Administration at the University of Central Florida,

Dr. Mike Rowe is Senior Lecturer in Public Sector Management at University of Liverpool, UK

Matt Candland is manager of South Boston, Virginia

Dr. Mandie Cantlin is manager at East Bradford Township, Pennsylvania

• [00:00] Introduction
• Overview of Paul Bloom’s book and the central question: is empathy always good, or can it lead us astray?
• [00:03] Tom’s Opening Challenge
• Emotional empathy vs. cognitive empathy; empathy’s unintended consequences in society
• [00:05] Matt’s Critique
• The “degree of empathy” and the need for moral grounding; empathy tethered to worldviews
• [00:06] Mike’s Perspective
• Empathy doesn’t always lead to action; questioning the head/heart divide
• [00:10] Mandie on Public vs. Private Roles
• How empathy differs when acting as an individual versus as a public servant
• [00:14] Politics, Torture, and the War on Terror
• Examples of how empathy is tethered and manipulated in high-stakes decision making
• [00:17] Manipulation of Emotions
• Willie Horton case, political campaigns, and the spotlight effect in policymaking
• [00:21] Empathy, Charity, and Bias
• Fundraising appeals and the effectiveness (and risks) of emotional storytelling
• [00:27] History as a Lens
• Carlisle Indian School as an example of empathy tethered to destructive cultural values
• [00:31] Rationality vs. Emotionality
• Debating whether reason and empathy can truly be separated
• [00:32] Empathy in Leadership
• Emotional intelligence, authenticity, and shifting trends in public leadership
• [00:33] Political Violence and Empathy
• Reflections on the shooting of Charlie Kirk, empathy’s role in both violence and reconciliation
• [00:39] Closing Reflections
• Final verdicts: qualified support for empathy but with cautions on its limits

In this episode of PCC Local Time, we sit down with three dynamic municipal leaders from southeastern Pennsylvania—John Ernst (Lansdale Borough), Amanda Lafty (Upper Merion Township), and Dave Burman (Haverford Township). Representing three generations of managers, they dive into the hard questions facing local governments today: housing instability, generational workforce changes, the role of social media, the looming fiscal cliff, zoning reform, and even the future of public utilities.

🗝️ Topics include:

• Housing pressures in boroughs and suburbs
• Workforce shifts and millennial recruitment
• Succession planning and structural reorganization
• Potential and limits of social media
• Zoning reform and housing affordability
• MS4 compliance burdens
• Shared services and regional collaboration

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APMM - Association for Pennsylvania Municipal Management

00:00 – Housing issues in Lansdale

05:00 – Workforce changes and generational transitions

08:30 – Collective bargaining and staff retention

11:00 – Succession planning and restructuring

13:00 – Using social media in recruitment

17:00 – Affordable housing and zoning tensions

21:00 – Accessory dwelling units and density

24:00 – Transit access and economic concerns

25:30 – Fiscal cliff and revenue diversification

28:30 – Public utilities and privatization

30:00 – MS4 mandates and funding responsibilities

32:00 – Magic wand ideas for civic education and communication

37:00 – Shared staffing and municipal collaboration

40:00 – Cross-community learning and rural leadership

42:30 – Closing reflections