When is PLG just a fad? Vijay Iyengar, Senior Director of Product at Mixpanel discusses with me about the misconceptions around PLG and the role of analytics in driving business growth and why first principles is in our field the only thing we have.

Do PM’s really need to have a basic understanding of data and how it is stored and analyzed with LLMs being the norm? Why business intelligence (BI) tools are not the answer.

Which key metrics and questions are correct to start with if you’re trying to get your data under control?

Takeaways

• PLG is not suitable for every business
• Business intelligence (BI) tools are good for consumption and reporting, but not for analysis.
• Data quality is a challenge, and engineers need to care about data and be involved in tracking.

Sound Bites

• "There's no best practices the way there are in other fields. Like it's all being written. It's all first principles."
• "There's plenty of businesses that can monetize much better and grow much better focusing on a different segment of the market where PLG isn't the appropriate sales motion."
• "Core root analysis, just following people around this is very, very underappreciated."
• "BI tools are good at consumption. It's good when you've predefined a set of metrics and dimensions and you want to push that out for general consumption."
• "Reporting is great to just keep a pulse on things, but nobody ever found an insight from reporting or nobody ever found something that's needle moving from a report."

Chapters

03:23 The Relevance and Overrating of Product-Led Growth (PLG)

05:15 Finding the Right Sales Motion for Your Business

09:28 The Importance of Tracking and Analytics in Sales Motions

13:44 Focusing on Churn and Retention for Sustainable Growth

22:14 Understanding the First Week Experience and Power Users

26:27 Understanding Data in Product Management

27:52 Limitations of BI Tools

29:19 Challenges of Data Quality and the Need for Engineers to Care

31:44 The Role of the CTO and CPO in Driving Data-Driven Decision-Making

46:34 Getting Started with Data Analysis: Focusing on Key Metrics

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Laura Schaffer, VP Product Growth @ Amplitude shares her experience of launching a self-serve paid plan and a free plan at Amplitude, a sales-led organization.

We discuss the changing landscape of selling, the power of self-serve product experiences, and the expectations of users. The conversation also delves into the tensions between sales and self-serve motions, the importance of buy-in and clear decision-making frameworks, and the structure and purpose of trials and freemium offerings.

We also talk about the disappearance of classical websites, questioning the need for a separate website and sign-up flow. What’s the role of Product, Growth and Marketing in that future?

Takeaways

The digital landscape has changed, and users now expect self-serve product experiences that allow them to try and evaluate products themselves.
Product-led growth (PLG) is a powerful approach that can drive pipeline and accelerate sales, but it requires buy-in and clear decision-making frameworks.
Trials and freemium offerings are effective ways to lower the friction of pricing and onboard users, but they need to provide enough value to get users over the next hurdle.
Digital web experiences and digital product experiences are becoming more similar, and the need for a separate website and sign-up flow is being questioned.

Sound Bites

"Whenever you layer in a self-serve motion into a sales led company, it will shed spotlight on any issues that are there at the company."
"Companies will start merging the website and product experience to avoid losing potential customers in the funnel."
Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Challenges of Implementing Self-Serve Motion

06:42 The Changing Landscape of Selling and the Power of Self-Serve Experiences

13:54 Tensions Between Sales and Self-Serve Motions: Navigating Conflicts and Gaining Buy-In

21:02 Trials and Freemium: Lowering Friction and Onboarding Users

26:02 Balancing Self-Serve and Sales-Led Motions: Serving Lower-End and Enterprise Segments

29:09 The Blurring Line Between Digital Web Experiences and Digital Product Experiences

37:01 Merging Website and Product Experiences

44:30 Measuring Success in a Product-Led Growth Model

50:36 The Importance of Support in the Self-Serve Environment


My Blog / Newsletter: www.leahtharin.com
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leahtharin/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/LeahThar

#productledgrowth

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Summary

Activation and aha moments in product growth with Henrique Cruz, Head of Growth at Rows.com. How to find the right activation metric that predicts retention and how to iterate on the onboarding flow to improve activation.

Examples of activation metrics and the challenges of tracking and improving activation. The importance of branding, the land and expand strategy, and positioning a brand against larger competitors.

Benefits of dropping the homepage and allowing users to immediately access the product.

Takeaways

Importing a CSV file has no correlation with week one retention for Rows, while pulling data from an integration is strongly correlated with retention.

The onboarding flow and the post-onboarding flow are both important for activation.

Start by analyzing the actions of high engagement users to form hypotheses about activation metrics.

Separate core users from less engaged users to focus on retention.

Send churn emails to users who have stopped using the product to understand the reasons for churn.

Dropping the homepage and allowing users to immediately access the product can increase sign-up rates and provide valuable data for experimentation.


Sound Bites

"Importing a CSV file has basically no correlation with week one retention."
"Activation really only starts after onboarding."


Chapters

08:59 Iterating on the Onboarding Flow for Better Activation

10:53 Analyzing User Behavior to Improve Activation

18:02 Understanding Churn and Retention

23:00 The Impact of Embeds on Activation

23:30 Branding and Positioning

34:27 Dropping the Homepage and User Data

37:34 Selling to Enterprise Customers

46:42 Generating Curiosity Through Social Media

My Blog / Newsletter: www.leahtharin.com
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leahtharin/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/LeahThar

#productledgrowth

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Summary

Guillaume Cabane and I discuss the future of marketing and the role of humans in a landscape dominated by AI and automation. We’re talking about what does drive marketing and sales teams, and how their future will look like.

The conversation touches on topics such as product-led growth, market penetration, and the role of content marketing in engaging target audiences.

The conversation touches on the use of automation and human interaction in customer reactivation, as well as the ethical considerations of growth marketing. They conclude with insights on understanding churn and implementing effective re-engagement campaigns.

Takeaways

The role of humans in marketing is being challenged by AI and automation, raising questions about the future of engagement and trust.

Sophisticated scams and phishing techniques require marketers to find new ways to build trust with their audience.

Engagement and consumption metrics provide valuable insights into the effectiveness of marketing efforts and the level of interest from potential customers. Long sales cycles and complex products require a different approach to customer activation.

The NPS metric can be valuable for gathering feedback and identifying churn reasons, but it should be used in conjunction with other data sources.

Sound Bites

"Marketing generally has an incentive to over-promise, because that is what brings the people in."

"Why hand over to a human, which is a risk of failure at this point? Just automate the touch."

Chapters

07:31 Building Trust in the Face of Sophisticated Scams

13:13 Aligning Incentives and Metrics for Long-Term Customer Success

27:29 Measuring Engagement and Consumption for Effective Marketing

28:54 Customer Activation and Long Sales Cycles

31:22 The Importance of Customer Data and Tools

34:43 Automation vs. Human Interaction

39:18 Understanding Churn and Reactivation

49:18 The Limitations of NPS and Rebates

52:07 Timing and Strategies for Customer Reactivation


My Blog / Newsletter: www.leahtharin.com
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leahtharin/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/LeahThar

#productledgrowth

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Summary

Kristen Berman, the Co-Founder of Irrational Labs discusses with me the psychology behind decision-making, the importance of understanding human behavior in product design, and the limitations of traditional research methods.

We are exploring the challenges of balancing friction and value in user experiences, the role of context in shaping behavior, and the need to focus on the first day of user onboarding. The concept of getting customers out of their status quo and the various strategies to achieve this, such as offering immediate benefits or making the onboarding process easier.


Takeaways
Traditional research methods, such as interviews, may not accurately predict future behavior.

The environment and user experience can significantly impact user behavior.

The first day of user onboarding is crucial for capturing user attention and driving engagement.

Context and reference points play a significant role in determining pricing and creating value for customers.


Sound Bites

"The psychology of not wanting to be cheated or feel like it's unfair can be pretty universal."

"Your job as a product person is to get me out of my status quo."

"Try to set your team up to do experiments. Starting higher is better because you can always come down if you start lower."


Chapters

00:00 The Psychology of Decision-Making and Product Growth

09:00 The Limitations of Traditional Research Methods

21:02 The Importance of the First Day of User Onboarding

24:16 Understanding the Context and Mindset of Users

27:06 Getting Customers Out of Their Status Quo

35:34 The Importance of Experimentation and Research in Pricing

43:28 Context and Reference Points in Pricing and Value Creation

My Blog / Newsletter: www.leahtharin.com
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leahtharin/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/LeahThar

#productledgrowth

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Summary

Kyle Pursell, the Head of Growth Optimization at Shopify, talks about impactful business strategies for growth.

What is the challenge of moving upmarket, and the role of product-led growth in driving this success. And why cross-functional collaboration in growth initiatives is often undervalued.

We also talk about the different paths to getting into growth roles and share their favorite podcasts and books.

Takeaways

• Building alignment and getting feedback before important meetings is never optional.
• Cross-functional collaboration is essential for effective growth initiatives
• Focus on maximizing user engagement in the first session to drive activation
• Implement strategies to retain customers who are canceling, such as offering compromises
• Consider different paths to getting into growth roles, such as starting in customer service or marketing

Sound Bites

• "Growth is not an overcomplicated craft. It's just identifying levers, using data to make decisions, experiment."
• "The aim of important meetings like that are just like a rubber stamp. Everyone is aligned."
• "Do not go into a meeting that is important to you without knowing how it ends."
• "Drive people as far down the funnel as possible in that first session as early as possible."

Chapters

07:01 Understanding GMV and Leveraging Metrics

14:28 The Power of Product-Led Growth

28:19 Optimizing Site Speed for Engagement and Conversion

32:10 The Importance of Cross-Functional Collaboration

35:30 The Importance of Stakeholder Alignment in Meetings

38:22 Maximizing User Engagement in the First Session

39:20 Strategies for Retaining Customers Who Are Canceling

51:34 Different Paths to Getting into Growth Roles

01:03:49 Unwinding with Podcasts and Books Outside of Your Field

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Summary

In the second conversation with Kieran Flanagan, SVP Marketing at Hubspot we talk about how we see AI really being used in tech and not just being a flashy thing you use once. From Sales, to Marketing to Product. Where are we today and where is all of this going?

The conversation explores the role of AI in strategy, the potential for AI-driven social networks, the impact of AI on user interfaces and customer service, the importance of data in AI tools, and the need for iterative refinement when using AI.

Takeaways

• AI can assist in strategy, but it requires human knowledge and the ability to ask for specific output.
• AI can improve user interfaces and customer service, but there is a risk of increased isolation and loneliness.
• Marketers and business leaders need to have a deep understanding of their own business before leveraging AI.
• Challenges and limitations of AI include the need for large datasets and the resistance to adopting new software in sales.

Sound Bites

• "It’s not that AI cannot do strategy. You can't do strategy. You don't actually know how to talk to the AI and give it instructions in a way that would actually be helpful towards building a strategy."
• "AI can do a better job than nothing for people who are missing companionship, for people who feel like they are isolated, for people who just crave someone to be there at all times and talk to."
• "You give AI context, you teach it what good looks like before you use it productively."

Chapters

03:04 The Potential for AI-Driven Social Networks

05:59 AI and the Evolution of User Interfaces and Customer Service

08:52 The Importance of Data in AI Tools

14:17 The Limitations of AI in Understanding Context and Reasoning

31:12 Optimizing Workflows and Efficiency with AI

34:28 Enhancing Lead Generation and Conversion with AI

38:41 Improving the Customer Onboarding Experience with AI

44:26 Challenges and Limitations of AI in Sales

50:38 Using AI to Solve Real Problems and Create Value

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Dennis R. Mortensen is a serial entrepreneur and the founder of LaunchBrightly, which makes money by automating the most annoying things in our work lives (through AI).

We talk about why it’s important to own your own data set for competitive advantage and the misconception that successful entrepreneurs should become investors. Dennis refuses to do anything else other than focussing on his startups. No boards, no investing, just focus.

We conclude with a discussion on the future of user interfaces and the potential for voice-first products.

Takeaways

Owning your own data set is the only way to stay in business

Successful entrepreneurs are not obligated to become investors; they can continue to jump into the next startup

Genuinely hating a problem is the number one reason for motivation and success in solving it.

The future of user interfaces is uncertain, but voice-first products and more intelligent assistants are expected.


Sound Bites

"There is this belief, which I hate, that once you've had a little bit of success, say you make a startup, you get to the end, you make a few monies, you kind of won in that particular game, then you're supposed to become an investor, angel investor, something in between."

"I invite a bunch of folks to come and convince me to not do it."

"If we do more of this, everybody's happy."


Chapters

00:00 Owning Your Own Data Set for Competitive Advantage

03:03 Misconception of Successful Entrepreneurs as Investors

09:46 Automating the Process of Creating Product Screenshots

13:34 The Role of AI in Increasing Productivity

25:30 Genuinely Hating a Problem

26:28 Challenging and Deconstructing Business Cases

31:56 Tracking and Measuring KPIs

36:18 Owning and Operating Proprietary Data Sets

43:30 The Future of User Interfaces and Voice-First Products

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Leah on Linkedin / Twitter / Youtube