In this episode, host Amri Johnson welcomes Dr. Jonathan Ashong-Lamptey, founder of The Element of Inclusion, to discuss evidence-based inclusion and its importance in creating more effective diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) strategies.

Timestamps

06:46 Influences and Inspirations: Personal and Professional 16:12 The Importance of Evidence-Based Decision Making 19:33 The Rhetorical Problem in Diversity and Inclusion 22:12 Evidence-Based Inclusion and Emotional Appeals 22:36 Unconscious Bias Training: Effectiveness and Critiques 23:41 The Role of Credibility in DEI 24:50 Understanding Data vs. Evidence 25:34 Current State of DEI and Pushback 27:37 Challenges in DEI Implementation 40:56 Choosing the Right DEI Practitioner

Highlights

- Dr. Jonathan explains the concept of evidence-based inclusion and its four key areas: research, stakeholder input, organizational data, and professional expertise.

- Discussion on the limitations of unconscious bias training and the need for more rigorous approaches in DEI.

- Exploration of the "rhetorical problem" in DEI, emphasizing the need for logos (logic) and ethos (credibility) alongside pathos (emotion).

- Insights on how evidence-based inclusion can help mitigate negative perceptions of DEI practitioners.

- Advice for organizations on selecting qualified DEI consultants and implementing effective strategies.

About the Guest

Dr. Jonathan Ashong-Lamptey, the world-renowned authority on Evidence-Based Inclusion in the workplace, has helped global brands like Conde Nast, Sony and Meta. With a PhD from the London School of Economics, he combines academic rigour with practical insights to deliver impactful solutions. He is also the host of The Element of Inclusion, a popular podcast that informs and educates using applied research and thought leadership.

Dr. Jonathan's expertise has been featured in prestigious media outlets like the FT, Bloomberg and the BBC. He is on a mission to help a million people make their workplaces inclusive.

Connect with Dr. Jonathan Ashong-Lamptey:

Website: https://elementofinclusion.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drjonathan/

Thank you for listening to the Reconstructing Inclusion Podcast. Make it a great day!

About the Host

As CEO/Founder of Inclusion Wins, Amri B. Johnson and a virtual collective of partners converge organizational purpose to create global impact with a lens of inclusion.

His theory of change is focused on building ‘Inclusion Systems.’ Inclusion systems provide direction and momentum in the complexity of organizations that allow them to be antifragile—leaning into and engaging with resistance, stressors, disruptions, and disequilibrium and being stronger as a result of such engagement.

His book, Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable outlines how organizations can create inclusion-normative cultures and build approaches to DEI that are designed for and with everyone, unambiguously prioritized, and purpose aligned.

Born in Topeka, Kansas (USA), Amri has worked and lived in the U.S., Brazil, and currently lives in Basel, Switzerland, with his wife Martina and their three kids.

Reconstructing Inclusion is also on Substack. Subscribe and be part of the conversation!

Your support means a lot!

Like this episode? We'd greatly appreciate it if you could take a moment to write a review, even if it's just one sentence!

Grab a copy of Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable: https://amzn.to/45AYFFP

Sign up for the Reconstructing Inclusion newsletter on Substack: https://reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/

Amri B. Johnson acknowledges the growing criticism of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) efforts, but argues that DEI remains crucial for organizational success in creating truly inclusive cultures. He believes many current strategies treat inclusion as an add-on rather than fundamentally rethinking systems and cultures, often failing to drive deep systemic change.

Season two of the Reconstructing Inclusion podcast aims to move beyond surface-level discussions by featuring contrarian voices to challenge assumptions and re-imagine what authentic inclusion could look like. Key topics will include embracing complexity, exploring cultural intelligence, leveraging data and social capital analysis, examining nuanced identity narratives beyond race and gender, and fostering genuine community across differences.

Amri invites listeners to join this journey of deconstructing DEI shortcomings, co-creating transformative human-centered approaches, and continually examining biases for lifelong learning - all in the pursuit of making DEI efforts more accessible, actionable, and sustainable within organizations.

About the Host

As CEO/Founder of Inclusion Wins, Amri B. Johnson and a virtual collective of partners converge organizational purpose to create global impact with a lens of inclusion.

His theory of change is focused on building ‘Inclusion Systems.’ Inclusion systems provide direction and momentum in the complexity of organizations that allow them to be antifragile—leaning into and engaging with resistance, stressors, disruptions, and disequilibrium and being stronger as a result of such engagement.

His book, Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable outlines how organizations can create inclusion-normative cultures and build approaches to DEI that are designed for and with everyone, unambiguously prioritized, and purpose-aligned.

Born in Topeka, Kansas (USA), Amri has worked and lived in the U.S., Brazil, and currently lives in Basel, Switzerland, with his wife Martina and their three kids.

Your support means a lot!

Like this episode? We'd greatly appreciate it if you could take a moment to write a review, even if it's just one sentence!

Grab a copy of Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable: https://amzn.to/45AYFFP

Sign up for the Reconstructing Inclusion newsletter on Substack: https://reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/

Connect with Amri on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amrijohnson/

Let's discuss where your inclusion policies are effective and how to overcome challenges by creating an Inclusion System. > https://inclusionwins.com/contact

In this episode of the Reconstructing Inclusion Podcast, host Amri Johnson interviews Raquel Ark, an expert on the art and science of listening. They discuss the importance of listening for diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI), and how it can be practiced and improved upon both personally and professionally. Raquel shares insights into her background, growing up between cultures, and how it shaped her understanding of different perspectives and listening. She highlights the experiences that led her to focus on listening, including her work in corporate communications and facilitation. The conversation delves into practical aspects of listening, such as creating 'listening playgrounds,' understanding listening as episodic, and the interdependence of speakers and listeners. Raquel emphasizes the role of listening in high-stakes situations, the need for humility, and the impact of listening on building trust and effective communication. The episode concludes with recommendations for structuring meetings to facilitate better listening and the transformative potential of listening for DEI initiatives.

Timestamps

00:22 Raquel Ark: A Listening Expert

03:15 Raquel's Personal and Professional Journey

07:13 The Art and Science of Listening

18:34 Listening Beyond Words: Email as a Listening Space

23:17 Exploring Listening Playgrounds

26:39 The Power of Experiential Learning in Listening

27:42 The Science Behind Effective Listening

28:25 Interdependence in Communication

29:07 Practical Tips for Enhancing Listening Skills

29:53 Understanding Listening as an Episodic Process

37:17 The Role of Listening in High-Stakes Situations

45:23 Practicing Listening for Better Communication

45:45 Structuring Meetings for Effective Listening

48:02 Conclusion: The Importance of Listening in DEI

About the Guest

Raquel Ark, MA, CPC, is a podcast host, speaker, mentor, coach and trainer. She has over 25 years of experience in multinational corporations, start-ups, and academia. She is the Founder of listening ALCHEMY, a communication training and coaching organisation including evidence-based listening programs. She is the podcast host of the "listening SUPERPOWER" podcast focused on listening in teams and organisations beyond what we typically consider. She co-authored a best-selling book, "Redefining The Rules” and spoke on the TedX stage. She is the President of the International Listening Association and a university instructor at Fresenius University of Applied Sciences in Germany.

You can connect with Raquel at:

Email: raquel@raquelark.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raquel-ark-b2067613/

Website: https://listeningalchemy.com/

About the Host

As CEO/Founder of Inclusion Wins, Amri B. Johnson and a virtual collective of partners converge organizational purpose to create global impact with a lens of inclusion.

His theory of change is focused on building ‘Inclusion Systems.’ Inclusion systems provide direction and momentum in the complexity of organizations that allow them to be antifragile—leaning into and engaging with resistance, stressors, disruptions, and disequilibrium and being stronger as a result of such engagement.

His book, Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable outlines how organizations can create inclusion-normative cultures and build approaches to DEI that are designed for and with everyone, unambiguously prioritized, and purpose-aligned.

Born in Topeka, Kansas (USA), Amri has worked and lived in the U.S., Brazil, and currently lives in Basel, Switzerland, with his wife Martina and their three kids.

Your support means a lot!

Like this episode? We'd greatly appreciate it if you could take a moment to write a review, even if it's just one sentence!

Grab a copy of Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable: https://amzn.to/45AYFFP

Sign up for the Reconstructing Inclusion newsletter on Substack: https://reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/

Connect with Amri on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amrijohnson/

Let's discuss where your inclusion policies are effective and how to overcome challenges by creating an Inclusion System. > https://inclusionwins.com/contact

In this episode of the ‘Reconstructing Inclusion’ podcast, Amri expresses concerns over the perceived threats to DEI, outlining that the resistance stems from a misunderstanding of what DEI truly signifies, beyond just representation and affirmative action. He explores the concept of 'Iatrogenic effects'—a medical term, indicating a treatment that causes more harm than good. Amri draws parallels between such unintended negative outcomes in healthcare and similar phenomena observed in DEI implementations, where initiatives sometimes inadvertently foster dependency, exclusivity, or counter-productive tensions. Through personal anecdotes and references to scholarly works, Amri makes the case for a reevaluation of DEI strategies, urging a shift towards inclusivity, agency, and a methodical questioning of DEI practices to ensure they foster genuine progress rather than unintended setbacks. Lastly, he encourages DEI practitioners and supporters to see current criticisms not as an attack but as an opportunity to refine and advance their approaches to truly make organizational and societal change.

Timestamps:

00:15 Understanding DEI and Its Opportunities

00:45 The Current State of DEI

01:25 Defining DEI and Its Importance

02:28 The Challenges and Misconceptions of DEI

06:03 The Concept of Iatrogenesis in DEI

11:18 The Impact of Iatrogenesis in DEI

14:18 The Role of Exclusivity in DEI

31:02 The Importance of Agency in DEI

34:41 The Role of Intentional Broadening in DEI

38:50 The Future of DEI

40:25 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

About the Host

As CEO/Founder of Inclusion Wins, Amri B. Johnson and a virtual collective of partners converge organizational purpose to create global impact with a lens of inclusion.

His theory of change is focused on building ‘Inclusion Systems.’ Inclusion systems provide direction and momentum in the complexity of organizations that allow them to be antifragile—leaning into and engaging with resistance, stressors, disruptions, and disequilibrium and being stronger as a result of such engagement.

His book, Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable outlines how organizations can create inclusion-normative cultures and build approaches to DEI that are designed for and with everyone, unambiguously prioritized, and purpose-aligned.

Born in Topeka, Kansas (USA), Amri has worked and lived in the U.S., Brazil, and currently lives in Basel, Switzerland, with his wife Martina and their three kids.

Your support means a lot!

Like this episode? We'd greatly appreciate it if you could take a moment to write a review, even if it's just one sentence!

Grab a copy of Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable: https://amzn.to/45AYFFP

Sign up for the Reconstructing Inclusion newsletter on Substack: https://reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/

Connect with Amri on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amrijohnson/

Let's discuss where your inclusion policies are effective and how to overcome challenges by creating an Inclusion System. > https://inclusionwins.com/contact

In this episode of the ‘Reconstructing Inclusion’ podcast, Amri interviews Laura Smith, a celebrated organizational researcher and Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) strategist. Laura shares her journey from Detroit to Europe, her encounters with distinct cultures, and the notion of work in different countries. She highlights the significance of DEI in startup and scale-up companies, discussing a data-driven approach to understanding employee safety, company culture, and readiness to respond.

In this episode, Laura also talks about her experiences navigating DEI in various cultural contexts, particularly in the Nordic startup scene. They discuss the importance of intentionality in DEI work and the need for understanding the people and their contexts in the industries we serve. Laura shares her thoughts on the concept of 'becoming black', the meaning of work in different cultural contexts, and the important role of data in DEI work. She emphasizes the need to look beyond who's in the room, to ensuring conditions are created for them to thrive wherever they might be.

Timestamps

01:24 Getting to Know Laura Smith

04:25 Laura's Journey and Background

07:24 The Importance of Inclusion in Growth

09:55 The Work of ValiDEI

13:26 Understanding the Meaning of Work

17:29 Laura's Experience of Blackness

23:27 Transitioning to the World of Startups

24:07 The Importance of Intentionality in Startups

24:59 The Challenge of Inclusion in Startups

25:54 The Role of Diversity in Global Products

27:57 The Reality of Failure and Learning Opportunities

29:43 The Importance of Building Bridges in DEI

30:46 The Role of Investors in DEI

31:20 The Importance of Understanding People in DEI

33:16 The Current State of DEI in the Nordics

36:48 The Use of Data in DEI

41:57 The Personal Impact of Living Abroad

About the Guest

Laura Smith is an experienced organizational researcher, communications director, and strategist who helps companies discover impactful ways of becoming more inclusive, equitable, and empowering.

As founder of VALIDEI, an organizational research agency, she coordinates cross-functional research teams across Europe to deliver audits, experiments, and insights to support socially responsible businesses.

As a people-minded and data-informed professional, Laura develops organization-specific metrics, OKRs, and best practices for inclusive organizational development, communications, recruitment, and employer branding for growth companies.

She frequently collaborates with DEI and ESG agencies across the Nordics, subcontracting as a researcher or analyst. Learn more about her work by visiting https://www.validei.com/

About the Host

As CEO/Founder of Inclusion Wins, Amri B. Johnson and a virtual collective of partners converge organizational purpose to create global impact with a lens of inclusion.

His theory of change is focused on building ‘Inclusion Systems.’ Inclusion systems provide direction and momentum in the complexity of organizations that allow them to be antifragile—leaning into and engaging with resistance, stressors, disruptions, and disequilibrium and being stronger as a result of such engagement.

His book, Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable outlines how organizations can create inclusion-normative cultures and build approaches to DEI that are designed for and with everyone, unambiguously prioritized, and purpose-aligned.

Born in Topeka, Kansas (USA), Amri has worked and lived in the U.S., Brazil, and currently lives in Basel, Switzerland, with his wife Martina and their three kids.

Your support means a lot!

Like this episode? We'd greatly appreciate it if you could take a moment to write a review, even if it's just one sentence!

Grab a copy of Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable: https://amzn.to/45AYFFP

Sign up for the Reconstructing Inclusion newsletter on Substack: https://reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/

Let's discuss where your DEI policies are effective and how to overcome challenges by creating an Inclusion System. > https://inclusionwins.com/contact

In this episode of the 'Reconstructing Inclusion' podcast, host, Amri B. Johnson, engages in an enlightening conversation with his mother, Dr. Harriett D. Johnson, bringing out profound narratives about her life, family history, experiences, and take on DEI, and professional journey as an educator. They touched on the impact of history on current diversity and inclusion practices, based on Dr. Johnson's experiences growing up.

She shares insights from her long career in the education sector, emphasizing the importance of perspective, integrity, and resilience. Lastly, Dr. Harriett also reflects on her late husband's business acumen and discusses the importance of supporting children according to their heart's desires and potential.

Key highlights

• The power of instilling empowerment, self-determination, and respect for every individual's unique identity
• Dr. Harriett’s insights on DEI, sharing her wealth of experience in various educational settings
• The importance of following one's heart and making decisions rooted in love, empathy, and understanding

About the Guest

Dr. Harriett D. Johnson is a retired educator, school administrator, and professor of education. She received her Ph.D. in early childhood education from Kansas State University and her career destinations included speech pathologist, preschool founder, high-school principal, professor, and currently entrepreneur/owner of a funeral home.

Dr. Harriett was born in Kansas City, KS, and has resided in Topeka, KS for the past 60 years.

About the Host

As CEO/Founder of Inclusion Wins, Amri B. Johnson and a virtual collective of partners converge organizational purpose to create global impact with a lens of inclusion.

His theory of change is focused on building ‘Inclusion Systems.’ Inclusion systems provide direction and momentum in the complexity of organizations that allow them to be antifragile—leaning into and engaging with resistance, stressors, disruptions, and disequilibrium and being stronger as a result of such engagement.

His book, Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable outlines how organizations can create inclusion-normative cultures and build approaches to DEI that are designed for and with everyone, unambiguously prioritized, and purpose-aligned.

Born in Topeka, Kansas (USA), Amri has worked and lived in the U.S., Brazil, and currently lives in Basel, Switzerland, with his wife Martina and their three kids.

Reconstructing Inclusion is also on Substack. Get FREE 60-DAY ACCESS to Premium Content by signing up here.

In this episode of the ‘Reconstructing Inclusion’ podcast, Amri chats with Dr. Starling David Hunter III, who, having lived outside the U.S. for 18 years, recognizes the importance of cultural nuances in shaping organizational behavior theories. He shared valuable insights into his journey from engineering to organizational behavior, emphasizing the importance of bridging theory and practice.

The conversation delves into the dynamics of teaching in diverse cultural contexts, from the Middle East to Europe, and how adapting teaching methods has unveiled the cultural underpinnings of organizational theories. They explored the challenges of making Organizational Network Analysis (ONA) a necessary component in people analytics and organizational development.

Dr. Hunter III emphasizes the significance of applying network analysis to organizational behavior, leadership, diversity, equity, and inclusion, offering a macro view that complements traditional approaches and its potential to examine issues like belongingness and DEI through the lens of actual connections within organizations.

Key highlights

• Teaching Adaptations in Cultural Variation
• Unveiling Cultural Assumptions
• Social Capital: a key aspect in organizational dynamics
• Driving ONA Adoption in Organizations
• The Role of ONA in DEI Conversations

About the Guest

Dr. Starling David Hunter III received his MBA (in Human Resource Management) and Ph.D. (in Organization Theory) from Duke University's Fuqua School of Business. He has been a faculty member at MIT's Sloan School of Management and Carnegie Mellon's Tepper School of Business. His research, teaching, and consulting all focus on the application of social network analysis to questions of organization design and performance.

At present, Starling is a co-founder of Organalytic, a Stockholm-based advisory and consultancy specializing in organizational network analysis.

Learn more about his work by checking out Organalytic: https://organalytic.se/

About the Host

As CEO/Founder of Inclusion Wins, Amri B. Johnson and a virtual collective of partners converge organizational purpose to create global impact with a lens of inclusion.

His theory of change is focused on building ‘Inclusion Systems.’ Inclusion systems provide direction and momentum in the complexity of organizations that allow them to be antifragile—leaning into and engaging with resistance, stressors, disruptions, and disequilibrium and being stronger as a result of such engagement.

His book, Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable outlines how organizations can create inclusion-normative cultures and build approaches to DEI that are designed for and with everyone, unambiguously prioritized, and purpose aligned.

Born in Topeka, Kansas (USA), Amri has worked and lived in the U.S., Brazil, and currently lives in Basel, Switzerland, with his wife Martina and their three kids.

Reconstructing Inclusion is also on Substack. Subscribe and be part of the conversation!

In this episode of the ‘Reconstructing Inclusion’ podcast, Amri provides a deep dive into the complexities of DEI outcomes and calls for a broader, more inclusive approach that engages all individuals in fostering change. He encourages everyone to contemplate how to make DEI accessible, actionable, and sustainable for everyone, irrespective of their role or expertise. Amri also talks about Inclusion Wins' “Theory of Change”, which focuses on 'Inclusion Systems' design, cultural intelligence (CQ), and social capital as key components of fostering DEI outcomes. The episode raises questions about creating conditions that foster risk-taking and skill development and, particularly, challenges DEI practitioners to reflect on their "skin in the game."

Key highlights

• DEI Outcomes as Natural Progressions
• Significance of Equity and Equal Representation for Historically Marginalized Groups
• Creating Conditions for Thriving
• The Significance of "Skin in the Game"
• “DEI Work” Challenges

About the Host

As CEO/Founder of Inclusion Wins, Amri B. Johnson and a virtual collective of partners converge organizational purpose to create global impact with a lens of inclusion.

His theory of change is focused on building ‘Inclusion Systems.’ Inclusion systems provide direction and momentum in the complexity of organizations that allow them to be antifragile—leaning into and engaging with resistance, stressors, disruptions, and disequilibrium and being stronger as a result of such engagement.

His book, Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable outlines how organizations can create inclusion-normative cultures and build approaches to DEI that are designed for and with everyone, unambiguously prioritized, and purpose aligned.

Born in Topeka, Kansas (USA), Amri has worked and lived in the U.S., Brazil, and currently lives in Basel, Switzerland, with his wife Martina and their three kids.

Reconstructing Inclusion is also on Substack. Subscribe and be part of the conversation!