Politics is a dirty word for a lot of people. We think about strife, conflict, waging war for power. But is there good news in politics? Well Ross Kane thinks so. In this conversation, we reflect on his latest book The Good News of Church Politics. Ross discusses how politics is about organizing common life and decision making in communities, large and small. He talks about how Jesus navigated politics skillfully in the Gospels. He also describes how congregations can cultivate "politics of love" by starting with caring for their own members and moving outward in concentric circles to care for neighbors and address issues in their wider communities. We focus on practical ways congregations can organize interdependently and engage in "bottom-up" social change by addressing local injustices. So join us as we discover the good news of church politics.

Ross Kane teaches ethics and theology at Virginia Theological Seminary, where he also directs their doctoral programs. He's an author and pastor who writes about the complex intersections between theology, ethics, and culture.

Ross' Book:
The Good News of Church Politics

Ross' Recommendation:
Neither Settler Nor Native

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Christian extremism is on the rise in the United States. Elizabeth Neumann joins us to talk about what is happening, why it’s happening, and provides some pathways back to peace. She discusses how some churches have shifted away from Jesus' message of love towards a message of fear, grievance, and a desire to assert cultural power. She outlines the factors that have gotten us to this place like uncertainty, rapid social changes, and unmet needs for belonging and significance that can make people vulnerable to radicalization. However, the church can also provide healing and peace through community and finding significance in Christ. We talk about how the church can move back to the path of peace by centering Jesus rather than politics or culture wars. So join us to hear how the rise of Christian extremism came to be and for ways we can provide a path back to peace.

Elizabeth Neumann is a national security expert, violence prevention advocate, and author of the new book Kingdom of Rage: The Rise of Christian Extremism and the Path Back to Peace. She served on White House Homeland Security Council in the George W. Bush Administration, and as the Assistant Secretary for Counterterrorism at the Department of Homeland Security during the Trump Administration. She is currently the Chief Strategy Officer for Moonshot - a tech-enabled company supporting governments and community partners to understand and prevent violence. She is also a national security contributor for ABC News.

Elizabeth's Book:
Kingdom of Rage

Elizabeth's Recommendation:
The Spirit of Our Politics

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I have been a missionary and have trained and sent many missionaries. One of the things that we forget about is preparing for longevity. We often rely on ourselves, our own strengths and abilities to work for God. We have to figure out a way to work with God, be connected with Him, and follow His lead. In this conversation Jeremy and Monica provide insights into a healthy missional spirituality. They discuss their backgrounds in church planting, experiences with burnout, and insights on balancing mission and contemplation. They explore various spiritual practices that can be done individually and communally, including silence, solitude, prayer, and theological discussion. We also address sustaining marriage while in missionary work and finding hope in grassroots expressions of faith. Join us as we discover the art of missional spirituality.

Jeremy and Monica are Jesus followers, church planters, urban missionaries, rock climbers, and the authors of "The Art of Missional Spirituality". They live in Denver Colorado where they are equipping others through the Pando Collective.

Jeremy and Monica's Book:
The Art of Missional Spirituality

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The world is noisy. It’s hard to listen, to pay attention, and attune to God. Jay Kim helps us do just that in this conversation. Jay shares his journey of learning to tune out distractions and align their life to God's frequency through daily habits of prayer, scripture reading, and creating space for listening. We talk about hearing God speak through diverse communities, listening and speaking across differences, and cultivating empathy through curiosity in conversations. Jay offers practical tips for incorporating rhythms that promote detachment from technology and create space to listen to God and others deeply. So join us as we learn to listen well in a noisy world.

Jay Y. Kim is lead pastor of WestGate Church, a multisite church in Silicon Valley. He is the author of Analog Church: Why We Need Real People, Places, and Things in the Digital Age, winner of The Gospel Coalition’s First-Time Author Award, and the follow-up Analog Christian: Cultivating Contentment, Resilience, and Wisdom in the Digital Age. He cohosts the “ReGeneration Podcast,” and this fall he will cohost Barna’s new podcast “Making Space.”

Jay's Book:
Listen, Listen, Speak

Jay's Recommendations:
Stolen Focus
The Gift of Thorns

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Often we look at communities which look broken and dysfunctional and we take them on as a problem to be solved. But long term change requires presence, love, and hope. In this conversation, Amy Williams, a hope dealer in Chicago talks about her experience living in a neighborhood with gang violence, visiting kids in jail, and doing youth ministry work for years. There is hope in the community and many of the solutions come from within that same community. We talk about the importance of listening to understand others, developing compassion, and finding identity and hope in God. So join us as we learn to see others like Jesus does – with dignity, worth, and compassion.

Youth ministry veteran Amy Williams ministers to teens involved in gangs and those lost in the criminal justice system with a key strategy of life-on-life mentoring. As a certified gang intervention specialist, she heard God's call to move into a Latino gang neighborhood in Chicago's Humboldt Park community to be a "Hope Dealer" doing street outreach and walking life with young people on her block. Amy is project coordinator at New Life Centers, bringing in restorative justice programming to youth at juvenile prisons.

Amy has been a youth pastor, a reentry coordinator, and a youth mentor and advocate. She is a graduate of both University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and National Louis University. She resides in Chicago and loves salsa dancing and is a true beach baby.

Amy's Book:
Worth Seeing

Amy's Recommendations:
It's OK That You're Not OK
Tattoos on the Heart

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I have seen a lot of bad leadership out there. I know that there is a better way and a way to lead from all of who we are that builds people, gives voice to others, and empowers people in such a way that we can accomplish what God has entrusted us. In this conversation, Karl Martin talks about leading from a deeper place. Leading from the soul. Through the framework of the cave – the quest of the true, the road – the way of the brave, the table – the art of the kind, and the fire – the pursuit of the curious we can be whole hearted people that lead well. So join us as we enter the cave, the road, the table, and the fire.

After twenty-five years of building organizations and teams to their potential, Karl Martin founded Arable in 2020 from his home surrounded by Scottish countryside and farmland. Taking inspiration from its surroundings, Arable creates and cultivates bespoke and winning ecosystems for leaders and organizations to grow and flourish. He coaches leaders at some of the biggest and most influential companies in the world, like Toyota, NBCUniversal, X (formerly Twitter), Joe Gibbs Racing, Saatchi & Saatchi, to name a few. He divides his time between the U.S. and Scotland. He's married to Niki and they have 4 grown daughters.

Karl's Book:
The Cave, The Road, The Table, The Fire

Karl's Recommendation:
The Enneagram Guide to Waking Up


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There are cracks in the foundation. We have assumed that church and discipleship should look a certain way to produce more numbers, but through the last several years, we’ve seen we may have missed the mark. In this episode, Daniel Im discusses discipleship in a post-modern world where truth is seen as subjective rather than objective. He proposes a discipleship framework that focuses on interested Christians and interested non-Christians rather than just reaching one group or the other. He encourages churches to empower all disciples to make disciples rather than relying only on formal church leadership. We talk equipping believers to gather, grow, give, and go together through community rather than just gathering for teaching. So join us as we dive into the opportunity we have for discipleship in a post-everything world.

Daniel Im is a pastor, Bible teacher, writer, and podcast host with a passion for the local church. He is the lead pastor of Beulah Alliance Church and the author of No Silver Bullets, Planning Missional Churches, and You Are What You Do: And Six Other Lies about Work, Life, and Love. He lives in Edmonton, Alberta with his wife Christina and their three children. For more information, visit danielim.com and connect with him on social media @danielsangi. Daniel's newest book is The Discipleship Opportunity.

Daniel's Book:
The Discipleship Opportunity

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You know what it’s like. There is a stirring inside. A whisper that tells you which direction to head in. I’ve heard it. I’ve followed it and amazing things have happened. Someone else that has trusted the whisper is Kathy Izard. In this conversation, we focus on listening to and trusting God's whispers to follow one's life path and calling. Kathy shares her personal journey of hearing God's call to address homelessness in her community through founding a housing program. She discusses how communities can come together through a "housing first" approach to help the homeless population. Kathy emphasizes surrendering to God's plan and trusting that he will work through you, despite feelings of being unqualified or unexpected difficulties. So listen for your own whispers from God and have faith to follow where it leads. Join us as we learn to trust the whisper.

Kathy Izard is an award-winning author, a national speaker and retreat leader, and an advocate for housing and mental health services in Charlotte, North Carolina. She co-led the citywide effort to build Moore Place, Charlotte's first permanent, supportive housing for people experiencing chronic homelessness, and was instrumental in establishing HopeWay, Charlotte's first residential mental health treatment center. She wrote about her efforts in her memoir The Hundred Story Home, which received a 2017 Christopher Award for inspirational nonfiction.

Kathy's Book:
Trust the Whisper

Kathy's Recommendation:
The Amen Effect

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