FIRE staff responds to the Court's decision in Free Speech Coalition v. Paxton that addresses a Texas law requiring age verification for accessing certain sexual material online.

Will Creeley — Legal director

Bob Corn-Revere — Chief counsel

Ronnie London — General counsel

01:21 How the case wound up at the Supreme Court
06:57 Bob’s experience with arguing strict scrutiny in the courts
09:32 Ronnie’s perspective on the ruling
10:22 Brick + mortar stores vs. online sites
12:07 Has the Court established a new category of partially protected speech?
13:36 What speech is still subject to strict scrutiny after the ruling?
15:55 What does it mean to address the “work as a whole” in the internet context?
17:24 What modifications to the ruling, if any, would have satisfied FIRE?
18:06 What are the alternatives to address the internet’s risks toward minors?
20:16 For non-lawyer Americans, what is the best normative argument against the ruling?
22:38 Why is this ruling a “canary in the coal mine?”
23:36 How is age verification really about identity verification?
24:42 Why did the Court assume the need to protect children without citing any scientific findings in its ruling?
26:17 Does the ruling allow for more identity-based access barriers to lawful online speech?
28:04 Will Americans have to show ID to get into a public library?
29:30 Why does stare decisis seem to mean little to nothing to the Court?
32:08 Will there be a problem with selective enforcement of content-based restrictions on speech?
34:12 Could the ruling spark a patchwork of state laws that create digital borders?
36:26 Is there any other instance where the Court has used intermediate scrutiny in a First Amendment case?
37:29 Is the Court going to keep sweeping content-based statutes in the “incidental effect on speech” bucket?
38:14 Is sexual speech considered obscene?
40:33 How does the ruling affect adult content on mainstream social media platforms like Reddit and X?
43:27 Where does the ruling leave us on age verification laws?

- Supreme Court ruling: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/23-1122_3e04.pdf

- FIRE statement on FSC v. Paxton ruling: https://www.thefire.org/news/fire-statement-free-speech-coalition-v-paxton-upholding-age-verification-adult-content

- FIRE’s brief for the Fifth Circuit: https://www.thefire.org/news/supreme-court-agrees-review-fifth-circuit-decision-upholding-texas-adult-content-age

- FIRE’s amicus brief in support of petitioners and reversal: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/amicus-brief-support-petitioners-and-reversal-free-speech-coalition-v-paxton

We discuss the Supreme Court backing Maine lawmaker Laurel Libby, NPR filing suit against Trump, a years-long dispute over a student wearing a “there are only two genders” shirt, the Secret Service investigation into James Comey, the latest on Harvard vs. Trump, and more.

Guests:

Bob Corn-Revere — chief counsel, FIRE

Lee Levine — former senior counsel, Ballard Spahr

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

03:34 Censure of Rep. Libby

07:02 Supreme Court shadow docket

13:53 NPR lawsuit against Trump admin

19:07 Differences between NPR and Voice of America cases

30:50 Middle school student wearing “there are only two genders” shirt

48:54 Recent investigation into former FBI Director James Comey

55:46 Latest updates with Harvard and Trump

01:05:27 Outro

Read the transcript here.

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Show notes:

• “Ep. 56 have you been defamed?” Lee Levine’s previous appearance on the show (2018)

• “Supreme Court backs Republican lawmaker in Maine who was punished for transgender athlete remarks” NBC (2025)

• “NPR and Colorado public radio stations lawsuit against Trump administration” NPR (2025)

• “Ending taxpayer subsidization of biased media” The White House (2025)

• L. M. v. Town of Middleborough, Massachusetts Justia (2024)

• Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District FIRE (1969)

• “Secret Service is asking Comey about a photo of seashells spelling ‘86 47’” The New York Times (2025)

• “The promise of American higher education” Alan Garber (2025)

• Harvard's lawsuit (complaint) (2025)

Heather Mac Donald discusses the Trump administration’s free speech record amidst its battles with higher ed, mainstream media, law firms, and more.

Mac Donald is Thomas W. Smith Fellow at the Manhattan Institute. Her most recent book is “When race trumps merit: How the pursuit of equity sacrifices excellence, destroys beauty, and threatens lives.”

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

01:54 Mac Donald’s personal experience with being shouted down

05:34 Amy Wax, Carole Hooven, and other cancelled professors

11:04 Mac Donald’s support and concern on Trump’s free speech approach

23:41 Rümeysa Öztürk situation

32:08 The problems of campus bureaucracy

36:40 Trump’s executive orders on law firms

43:14 Trump’s attacks on AP News, CBS, ABC, Paramount, and other media companies

59:54 Outro

Read the transcript.

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Show notes:

• “The White House’s clumsy attack on Harvard” (2025) Heather Mac Donald

• “Everyone knows that Harvard has “lost its way…” (2025) President Trump via Truth Social

• “Secretary of State Marco Rubio with Mike Benz” (2025) U.S. Department of State

• “Tufts student returns to Massachusetts after 6 weeks in immigration detention” (2025) The New York Times

• “Headlines compared: Kamala Harris’ multiple answers to ‘60 Minutes’ question” (2024) Straight Arrow News

The co-authors of “The Canceling of the American Mind” discuss its new paperback release and where cancel culture stands a year and a half after the book’s original publication.

- Greg Lukianoff —

• President and CEO of FIRE

• Co-author of "The Canceling of the American Mind"

- Rikki Schlott —

• New York Post columnist

• Co-author of "The Canceling of the American Mind"

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

04:35 Origin of book

07:56 Definition of cancel culture

17:55 Mike Adams, canceled professor

23:51 Alexi McCammond, former Teen Vogue editor-in-chief

31:57 Echo chambers on social media

35:09 Trump administration ‘canceling’ law firms and higher ed institutions

44:02 Rikki’s libertarian political identity

51:02 Is cancel culture dead?

54:26 Outro

Read the transcript.

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Show notes:

• “Canceling of the American Mind” (paperback, 2025) by Greg Lukianoff and Rikki Schlott

• “We have never been woke: The cultural contradictions of a new elite” (2024) by Musa al-Gharbi

Our guests today signed onto a statement by a group of 18 law professors who opposed the Trump administration’s funding threats at Columbia on free speech and academic freedom grounds.

Since then, Northwestern, Cornell, Princeton, Harvard, and nearly 60 other colleges and universities are under investigation with their funding hanging in the balance, allegedly for violations of civil rights law.

To help us understand the funding threats, Harvard’s recent lawsuit against the federal government, and where universities go from here are:

- David Rabban — distinguished teaching professor at The University of Texas at Austin School of Law

- Erwin Chemerinsky — distinguished professor of law and dean at UC Berkeley Law

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

02:50 Govt’s approach with Harvard and Columbia

05:39 Title VI violations

11:30 Anti-Semitism on campuses

23:02 Viewpoint diversity in higher education

27:12 Affirmative action and the Supreme Court

35:52 Title IX under the Obama and Biden administrations

42:32 Bob Jones University and tax-exempt status

45:53 Future of federal funding in higher education

54:08 Outro

Read the transcript.

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Show notes:

• Academic freedom: from professional norm to first amendment right David Rabban (2024)

• Worse than nothing: the dangerous fallacy of originalism Erwin Chemerinsky (2022)

• “A statement from constitutional law scholars on Columbia” The New York Review (2025)

• Sweezy v. New Hampshire (1957)

• Title VI of the Civil Rights Act (1967)

• Federal government letter to Harvard (2025)

• “The promise of American higher education” Alan Garber (2025)

• Harvard's lawsuit (complaint) (2025)

• “Columbia agrees to Trump’s demands after federal funds are stripped” The New York Times (2025)

• “Sustaining Columbia’s vital mission” Claire Shipman (2025)

• Students for Fair Admissions, Inc. v. President and Fellows of Harvard College (2023)

• “What is Title IX? Its history & implications” FIRE (2025)

• Bridges v. Wixon (1945)

We travel from America to Europe, Russia, China, and more places to answer the question: Is there a global free speech recession?

Guests:

- Sarah McLaughlin: FIRE senior scholar, global expression

- James Kirchick: FIRE senior fellow

- Jacob Mchangama: FIRE senior fellow

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

03:52 Free speech global surveys

07:49 Freedom of expression deteriorating

11:43 Misinformation and disinformation

18:05 Russian state-sponsored media

24:55 Europe’s Digital Services Act

29:26 Chinese censorship

34:33 Radio Free Europe

54:57 Mohammad cartoons

01:04:14 Outro

Read the transcript here.

Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack’s paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@thefire.org.

Show notes:

- Authoritarians in the academy: How the internationalization of higher education and borderless censorship threaten free speech Sarah McLaughlin (2025)

- “The First Amendment created gay America” So to Speak (2022)

- “Secret city: The hidden history of gay Washington” James Kirchick (2022)

- “Who in the world supports free speech?” The Future of Free Speech (2025)

- “V-DEM democracy report 2025: 25 years of autocratization — democracy trumped?” V-Dem Institute (2025)

- Global risks report 2024 World Economic Forum (2025)

- “Gay reporter kicked off Kremlin network after protesting anti-gay law” Washington Free Beacon (2013)

- Free speech: A history from Socrates to social media (paperback) Jacob Mchangama (2025)

- Europe's Digital Services Act (DSA) (2022)

- Careless people: A cautionary tale of power, greed, and lost idealism Sarah Wynn-Williams (2025)

- “The Voice of America falls silent” The New York Times (2025)

- Text of Havel’s speech to Congress The Washington Post (1990)

- Voice of America wins in court, for now, as judge blocks Trump administration from firing staff AP News (2025)

First Amendment lawyer Marc Randazza and immigration lawyer Jeffrey Rubin join the show to discuss the arrest, detention, and possible deportation of green card holder Mahmoud Khalil.

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

00:53 Latest updates on Khalil

02:51 First Amendment implications

06:08 Legal perspectives on deportation

11:54 Chilling effects on free expression

21:06 Constitutional rights for non-citizens

24:03 The intersection of free speech and immigration law

27:02 Broader implication of immigration policies

37:51 Outro

Read the transcript here.

Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack’s paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@thefire.org.

Show notes:

- “​​We will be revoking the visas and/or green cards of Hamas supporters in America so they can be deported.” Secretary of State Marco Rubio via X (2025)

- “‘ICE proudly apprehended and detained Mahmoud Khalil, a radical foreign Pro-Hamas student on the campus of @Columbia University. This is the first arrest of many to come.’ President Donald J. Trump” The White House via X (2025)

- “WATCH: White House downplays stock market declines as ‘a snapshot’” PBS NewsHour (2025)

- “Secretary Rubio's remarks to the press” U.S. Department of State (2025)

- “Mahmoud Khalil. Notice to appear.” Habeeb Habeeb via X (2025)