On July 2, 2024, Caleb Campbell's new book Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor officially drops everywhere. Today, I am posting most of the interview I conducted with Caleb for use in my podcast series Telling Jefferson Lies.

In this episode, I do say I want to smash Christian nationalists, but I hope it is clear that I am not serious, but instead I agree with Caleb's approach. There is often a difference between what we might feel like doing and we know we should do, and Caleb points us to our better angels.

The opening music is something I lovingly call the Christian Nationalist Dance and the closer is Lo-Fi Hymnal's rendition of Were You There.

Excerpts from my interview with Scott Coley, lecturer in philosophy at Mount St. Mary's University. His new book Ministers of Propaganda: Truth, Power, and the Ideology of the Religious Right is out this week. In this bonus episode of the podcast series Telling Jefferson Lies, Scott discusses Christo-authoritarianism and the role of justice in overcoming self-interest.

Music credits:
Seiche by Dustin Blatnik
Debris by Roman Candle
Night Walk by Warren Throckmorton

Often debates focus on Christian nationalism and the problems which come from blurring the line between church and state. In this episode, I end the Telling Jefferson Lies series with some thoughts and testimony from experts about what is good about separation.

Helping me close out the series are:

Randall Balmer, John Phillips Chair in Religion, Dartmouth College
Caleb Campbell, Pastor, Desert Springs Bible Church, Phoenix, AZ
Michael Coulter, Professor, Political Science and Humanities, Grove City College
Greg Forster, theologian, Trinity International University
Charles Haynes, senior fellow for religious liberty at the Freedom Forum
Paul Kemeny, Dean of Arts and Letters, Grove City College
Joel McDurmon, Attorney, theologian
Glenn Sunshine, Colson Fellows

The closing song is Gemini by Robo Surgeon Fish. You can add it to your Spotify playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/track/6vqnUYyOrqLAWudh6Z5B5x?si=d76ccbb6edb94cfc

Theme Song: The World Awaits Us All, Roman Candle

Background Music: Jonathan Swaim, Robo Surgeon Fish, Warren Throckmorton

Telling Jefferson Lies was written, produced, and hosted by Warren Throckmorton

To see what's next, follow my blog/substack at warrenthrockmorton.substack.com

For more information about the book Getting Jefferson Right, go to gettingjeffersonright.com.