THIS EPISODE WAS RECORDED PRIOR TO THE ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT IN BUTLER< PA. Ken and Betsey reconvene for a post-debate debrief. Just before highly anticipated Presidential debate between the 45th and 46th Presidents, Ken and Betsey gave their predictions. They agreed that the “State of the Union Joe” would show up, energetic, focused and ready to take on his vulnerable opponent. Even Trump world expected it - as evidenced by the former President’s fiendish and unfounded suggestion that the President would be fresh off a cocaine hit. As the world now knows, the President’s demeanor would be on the opposite end of the energy scale. President Biden called it “a bad night.” And it was. Since the debate, the nation has been focussed on calls for him to gracefully drop out of the race. All the while, Donald Trump’s “firehose of lies” has been tragically overlooked - but not here. Ken reviews his most egregious “whoppers” as Betsey reacts. Ken and Betsey unpack Project 2025 - and their thoughts about where we go from here. Betsey names two worthwhile causes worth our support.

Betsey’s Recommends for Support: Wisconsin Dems (Wisconsin Democratic Party) | Ben Wickler

Become a Patron | Ken’s Substack Page

Support the Show.

Ken shares some brief thoughts about the shocking events at a Butler, Pennsylvania political rally.

Support the Show.

When Ken first knew Rick Axtell, he was a high school student. Ken, a seminarian in his early 20s, was his Youth Pastor at a church in the northern suburbs of Chicago. Rick was a leader in the youth group. When Rick moved to Mississippi and Ken graduated, they bid farewell - turns out, for fifty years. Just in the past few months, they have become re-acquainted, chatting on video calls with two other members of the long-ago youth group. Rick has had an extraordinary career as a college professor and chaplain, serving on the same Kentucky campus (the highly regarded Centre College) for three decades. Ken and Rick share their journey and their profound awakenings. Rick shares his experience in war-torn Bangladesh and how it set the course of his life. His coursework, his travels (with students), and his engagement with homelessness, poverty, and hunger have enormously impacted his life and career. His commitment to addressing the needs of the marginalized and the neglected, including LGBTQ+, has earned him the respect and admiration of his students, fellow faculty, and colleagues. On retirement, the college established an Endowment in Rick’s name. It reflects his passion and his remarkable contribution to the college community - advancing “religion, peace, and social justice.”

SHOW NOTES (learn more about Dr. Axtell)

Become a Patron | Ken’s Substack Page

Support the Show.

The headlines are filled with tragic stories of clergy misconduct - abuse, power, control, and church cover-ups. Elizabeth Pankey-Warren, M.Div., MSW, and Spiritual Director (The Living School), has counseled the victims and perpetrators of abuse both as a therapist and as an ordained minister. In her work, she has also encountered clergy abuse in the context of her own church workplace. She shares her personal journey with Ken. It began with a profound spiritual encounter at a Billy Graham Crusade (at the tender age of 13); on through college and seminary (Vanderbilt Divinity School in Nashville); and then to her pastoral roles and finally - her work as a sought-after therapist. Her passion is mind/body/spirit holistic health with specialties in Yoga and nutrition. It’s a refreshing, candid, lively conversation with a successful professional who also remains unencumbered by the constraints of fundamentalist religion and conservative politics. SHOW NOTES

Become a Patron | Ken’s Substack Page

Support the Show.

The two Ken’s check in the day after the GREAT DEBATE. While Ken Fong refused to make pre-debate predictions, Ken Kemp did. In the pre-debate Beach Talk with Betsey Newenhuyse, they anticipated that the energetic, focussed, forceful “State of the Union Joe” would appear. Most Republican commentators, including the 45th President, did, too. That’s why they concocted stories about Joe’s “cocaine habit” (or, according to the Speaker of the House, Mountain Dew.) The two Ken’s share their personal reactions as the 90-minute debate dragged on - with Biden badly missing his marks and Trump spewing what Ken Fong calls “a firehose of lies.” CNN’s Vann Jones shares his visceral reaction. But the question now is - where from here? What are the alternatives? The two Ken’s have a surprising possible candidate. SHOW NOTES

BECOME A PARTON | Ken’s Substack Page

Support the Show.

Ken checks in with Betsey to make some predictions in anticipation of the Presidential debate. Betsey predicts that Joe Biden will step up and perform as he did at the State of the Union and that Donald Trump will announce his VP pick in an effort to make news that will overshadow any possible gaffs. Betsey points out that the abortion issue is triggering a serious backlash among women against Republican pro-candidates. Project 2025, the brainchild of the Heritage Foundation is getting lots of attention as a road map of what will happen to our country if there is a Trump victory. Stephen Miller is a key architect of the plan. Betsey lays out her research. Louisiana has passed a law requiring the Ten Commandments to be posted in all public school classrooms. Donald Trump signaled his support. Ken notices that he is in public violation of all ten. SHOW NOTES

Become a Patron | Ken’s Substack Page

Support the Show.

Amanda Munroe shares her personal journey of life and faith; justice and pluralism. She currently serves as Director of Restorative Practices for Engaged Pluralism at Vassar College in Upstate New York. (Founded in 1861 as the second degree-granting institution of higher education for women in the United States, Vassar became coed in 1969.) Amanda is a specialist in conflict resolution, conducting faculty and student workshops on her campus and beyond. She has a rich academic background, beginning with B.A. (magna cum laude) in Global Studies and French from North Park University. During her studies, she lived and studied in France and West Africa where she became fluent in French. Amanda earned an M.A. in Conflict Resolution in the Department of Government at Georgetown University in Washington D.C. Then, she completed a Master of Divinity at Union Theological Seminary in New York where she studied alongside another of Ken’s guests, Dr. Isaac Sharp (author of The Other Evangelicals). Ken explores Amanda’s journey, from active involvement in Young Life during high school and her developing faith that has stoked a passion for restoration, justice and engaged pluralism. Learn more about Amanda in our SHOW NOTES.

Ken’s Interview With Amanda’s Dad - Jeff Munroe

Become a Patron | Ken’s Substack Page

Support the Show.

In 1997, when Philip Yancey submitted his manuscript to his publisher, he had serious doubts that his new offering (which followed his popular book, The Jesus I Never Knew) would find an audience. He knew his evangelical readers. In Yancey’s mind, the chapters on a Democrat President (Bill Clinton) and a fellow author who “came out” as gay (Mel White), would not set well - especially when he called for “grace.” To his surprise, What’s So Amazing About Grace became his best-seller. Today, 25 years later, Philip and his publishers agree. The need to apprehend and exhibit grace is greater today than ever in our polarized world. After making some revisions - mainly updates - the book has been released.

Ken welcomes back one of his favorite guests. After reminiscing over some good times together, they talk about the book. Better - they talk about grace. Amazing grace. Yancey shares his growing-up years - the racism that dominated his church, his neighborhood, and his Southern state (Georgia). They talk about his friendship with Bill Clinton, who read his books and regularly met with Philip’s friends, Tony Campolo and Gordon McDonald. They explore his friendship with Mel White, who for years was the ghostwriter for high-profile evangelical leaders: Francis Schaeffer, Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, Oliver North, Jim and Tammy Faye Baker, W.A. Criswell and Jerry Falwell and more. After years of depression, hiding, reparative therapy, and self-loathing, Mel came to terms with his identity. Philip was there; dispensing grace.

Back in the 90’s, PBS’s Bill Moyers produced a documentary - Amazing Grace - that beloved hymn. Yancey was moved by that hour long exploration of the hymn’s universal appeal. Moyers tells the story of the writer, John Newton, a brutal slave trader, who wrote the words: “Amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me.” Yancey agrees, Newton was indeed a wretch. By grace, he ultimately became a fervent abolitionist.

That’s what grace can do.

What’s So Amazing About Grace? (Revised and Updated) On Amazon

SHOW NOTES | Become a Patron | Ken’s Substack

Support the Show.