George is a journalist and novelist. He was a long-time staff writer at The New Yorker, now a staff writer at The Atlantic. He’s the author of 10 books, including The Unwinding: An Inner History of the New America — which won the National Book Award — and Our Man: Richard Holbrooke and the End of the American Century. His new novel is called The Emergency. It’s a parable of our polarized times — and a deeply unsettling one.

For two clips of our convo — on the clarity of Orwell’s writing, and the savior complex of the woke — head to our YouTube page.

Other topics: raised by two Stanford professors; his dad accused of fascism by his leftist students and red-baited by the right; his dad’s stroke and subsequent suicide at a young age; George’s time in the Peace Corps; how Orwell’s Homage to Catalonia “saved me”; entering journalism at 40; reporting in Iraq; Orwell’s contempt for elites; Auden and Spender; the ideologies of intellectuals; the young turning on their elders; the summer of 2020; Camus’ La Peste; January 6; Orwell’s bigotries; his love for the countryside and common decency; Animal Farm; Nineteen Eighty-Four; Hitchens; utopianism; Nietzsche and slave morality; Fukuyama and boredom; the collapse of religion; intra-elite competition; Mamdani; the Gaza protests; virtue signaling; struggle sessions; mobs on social media; the loss of gatekeepers; the queer takeover of the gay rights movement; the brutality of meritocracy; Nick Fuentes; Trump’s multi-racial win; his Cabinet picks as trolling; the utter capitulation of Vance; Haidt and smartphones; and our post-literate democracy.

Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Shadi Hamid in defense of US interventionism, Simon Rogoff on the narcissism of pols, Arthur Brooks on the science of happiness, Vivek Ramaswamy on the right, and Jason Willick on trade and conservatism. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

Michel is a human rights lawyer and author. He’s currently a lecturer at Columbia Law School, where he teaches national security law and jurisprudence. He’s also a contributing editor at Lawfare. His latest book is The Light of Battle: Eisenhower, D-Day, and the Birth of the American Superpower — an accessible, racy account of the run-up to D-Day, along with fascinating snapshots of his entire career.

For two clips of our convo — why FDR picked Eisenhower to orchestrate D-Day, and why he’s the antithesis of Trump — head to our YouTube page.

Other topics: Michel raised by a single mom in Allentown who became an Allentown DA; his scholarship to Oxford for computational linguistics; his work on human rights and defending Gitmo detainees; John Adams and due process; the Dish’s coverage of torture; the ways Eisenhower was misunderstood; his self-effacement; his religious pacifist parents; his abusive dad; his Horatio Alger story; Kansas conservatism; the knee injury that ended his football stardom at West Point; the scandal that nearly ended his career early on; the scarlet fever that killed his son; his early friendship with Patton; his intellectual mentor Fox Conner; Ike a protege of MacArthur until they soured on each other; his moderation and suspicion of ideology; his workaholism and stoicism; Pearl Harbor; his uneasy relationship with FDR; unexpectedly picked over George Marshall to lead D-Day; his knack for building consensus; winning over Monty and the other Brits; Churchill’s antics and his opposition to a Normandy landing; haunted by Gallipoli; the Atlantic Wall; Rommel; shouting matches at the Cairo Conference; Ike’s quiet charisma; the alleged affair with his Irish driver Kay Summersby; and how the weather nearly ruined D-Day.

Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: George Packer on his Orwell-inspired novel, Shadi Hamid on US power abroad, Simon Rogoff on the narcissism of pols, Jason Willick on trade and conservatism, Vivek Ramaswamy on the right, and Arthur Brooks on the science of happiness. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

Mark used to be the political director for ABC News and a senior political analyst at TIME magazine. Alongside John Heilemann, he co-managed Bloomberg Politics, co-hosted the shows “With All Due Respect” and “The Circus,” and co-authored Game Change and Double Down: Game Change 2012. Last year he launched the interactive live-video platform 2WAY, where he serves as editor-in-chief and hosts “The Morning Meeting” and “2WAY Tonight.” He also hosts “Next Up with Mark Halperin” on Megyn Kelly’s MK Media platform.

For two clips of our convo — on the bygone era of bipartisanship, and Bill Clinton’s staggering talent — head to our YouTube page.

Other topics: Mark’s dad who worked for Kissinger, LBJ, and Nixon; debating the insularity of DC: liberal media bias; the Bork hearings; Gingrich; Limbaugh; Gennifer Flowers and Bill’s affairs; Perot’s breakthrough; press coverage of Dubya; his speech on stem-cell research; 9/11 and the Iraq War; the unitary executive; the unifying rhetoric of Bush and Obama; the partisan bent of Obama’s stimulus; the ACA campaign; Trump at CPAC at 2011; Obama’s humor and the WHCD with Trump; the crucial role of The Apprentice; the killer issue of immigration in 2016; Hillary’s ineptitude; the Comey factor; the difficulty of covering Trump; the negative incentives of social media; Russiagate; the b******t Bragg case; the press failure on Biden’s fitness; “cheap fakes”; the shock and awe of Trump 2.0; executive orders and tariffs; his assault on institutions; the pardon machine; the Gaza deal; the Republicans standing up to Trump over Epstein; Newsom as the Dem frontrunner; Josh Shapiro; Death By Lightning; Tocqueville; and “Drain the Swamp” from the swampiest president ever.

Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Michel Paradis on Eisenhower, Shadi Hamid in defense of US interventionism, Simon Rogoff on the narcissism of pols, Jason Willick on trade and conservatism, Vivek Ramaswamy on the right, George Packer on his Orwell-inspired novel, and Arthur Brooks on the science of happiness. As always, please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.