Nearly every mainstream conversation about humanity's future, our current global crises, and our place in the natural world shares one common theme: the quiet, unquestioned assumption that humans are the apex species on Earth. This belief is so woven into our systems and thought patterns that it rarely gets named, let alone challenged. But what if this invisible worldview – more than fossil fuels, overpopulation, or any single policy failure – is at the very root of the ecological crisis?

In this episode, Nate speaks with primatologist and author Dr. Christine Webb about human exceptionalism – the deeply embedded belief that humans are separate from and superior to the rest of nature. Webb argues this worldview is not a universal human trait but rather a product of a few dominant cultures, and that it lies at the root of many of our most pressing global challenges. Drawing on her research with chimpanzees, bonobos, baboons, and other non-human primates, she illustrates how traits once thought to be uniquely human (like tool use, language, empathy, theory of mind, and culture) are in fact shared across species in various forms. Furthermore, Webb advocates for reimagining economic, legal, and educational systems to reflect the intrinsic value of all life.

What, exactly, is the meaningful line between "us" (humans) and "them" (other species), and who benefits from drawing it? How are current scientific 'best practices' accidentally reinforcing the myth of human exceptionalism, and what can we do to change them? And finally, if we decenter human exceptionalism, what richness might we stand to gain in community, meaning, and wellbeing?

(Conversation recorded on February 17th, 2025)

About Christine Webb:

Dr. Christine Webb is a primatologist and Assistant Professor in the Department of Environmental Studies at New York University as a part of the Animal Studies program. Prior to joining NYU, she was a Researcher and Lecturer in the Department of Human Evolutionary Biology at Harvard University.

Her research follows two intersecting lines of inquiry: understanding the complex dynamics of social life in animals, especially other primates, and examining how the dominant narrative of human exceptionalism has shaped scientific knowledge of the more-than-human world. These two lines of research have cumulated into her 2025 book, The Arrogant Ape: The Myth of Human Exceptionalism and Why It Matters, which argues that human exceptionalism is an ideology that relies more on human culture than our biology, and more on delusion and faith than on evidence.



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This week's Frankly is another edition of Nate's Wide Boundary News series, where he invites listeners to view the constant churn of headlines through a wider-boundary lens. In this installment, Nate addresses the U.S. and Israeli military offensive against Iran and traces the reverberating effects that extend far beyond the conflict itself, starting with what the closure of the Strait of Hormuz means for a civilization that routes a massive share of its physical economy through a single maritime corridor.

Nate begins with the core misperception that oil registers as roughly 3% of GDP by cost, when in reality it underpins 100% of economic activity. Building off of that, he outlines a series of second- and third-order effects that rarely appear in headline coverage, including hidden dependencies on sulfur, liquefied natural gas, and nitrogen fertilizer that connect the Strait of Hormuz to mining operations, European energy security, and global food systems. He also explains the stock-and-flow imbalance between expensive missile interceptors and cheap drone warfare, and the difficult choices facing aging Middle Eastern oil fields if production is forced to shut in. Finally, Nate considers the religious narratives on all three sides of the conflict, where Christian, Jewish, and Shia Islamic end-times frameworks each cast the war as prophetic fulfillment, short-circuiting the feedback loops that normally slow escalation.

What does the exposure of a single shipping corridor reveal about the deep energy dependencies of modern civilization? How might the second- and third-order effects of this conflict, from fertilizer to metals to food prices, reshape the global economy in ways that outlast the war itself? And when all parties in a conflict believe they are fulfilling divine prophecy, where do the off-ramps for de-escalation appear?

(Recorded March 9th, 2026)

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In this week's Frankly, Nate begins a new series called "Staying Human," which focuses on what he sees as a precondition for everything else: recovering a sense of personal agency. He opens against the backdrop of Operation Epic Fury and the broader turbulence of 2026, but rather than offering geopolitical analysis, he turns inward toward a question that has been reshaping his theory of change: why does growing awareness of the more-than-human predicament so often produce paralysis rather than action?

Nate traces the gap between awareness and agency through several layers. He draws on the science of learned helplessness and self-efficacy research to explain how nervous systems learn whether effort leads to outcomes, and how a digital environment designed to fragment attention can train people to stop investing in their own follow-through. He frames this not as a personal failing but as a predictable consequence of living inside a Superorganism that advertises choice while eroding the conditions for it. Rather than prescribing a program, Nate shares practices he is experimenting with himself: voluntary speed bumps before reaching for a screen, small kept promises that rebuild self-trust, and protecting even one hour of intentional time. He argues that reclaiming agency at the individual level is not sufficient to address our entire predicament, but it is a precondition for the community-level and institutional work required to make the future better than the default.

Where in your life has awareness of the world's problems triggered overwhelm or even paralysis? What is one kept promise, however small, that might begin to rebuild your sense of traction? And if agency is a precondition for everything that comes next, what would it look like to treat it as something you practice rather than something you wait to feel?

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