Diversity and inclusion are not evenly distributed throughout an organisation, and the view at the board level may not correspond with reality further down. This creates missed opportunities and prevents companies from unlocking the true potential of their talent and their organisations. Often, firms can increase productivity by doing more to be truly inclusive.

In this podcast, Dr Sabine Dembkowski, Founder and Managing Director of Better Boards, discusses increasing productivity through inclusion with Belton Flournoy, Managing Director of the Technology Consulting practice at Protiviti.

"When I was young, I looked up and didn't see many people like me”
Belton is passionate about inclusion for two reasons. First, he feels that when you don’t see anyone like yourself, you fear society won’t allow you in certain circles. Second, he continues to see people limiting which parts of their identity they show or hide, and this holds people back from expressing their true potential.

“We don't just need to focus on diversity initiatives and how they make people feel. We need to link them to the increased productivity”
Belton sees an incredible opportunity to translate the existing dialogues about diversity into more meaningful conversations linked to productivity outcomes and business results.

“If you haven't driven the true inclusion values through that middle layer, it won't permeate your organisation, and you might think your organisation is much more inclusion-oriented than it really is…”
Many boards have done serious work on inclusion, building it into the mission, governance, and operations. Yet when you drop into the middle management layer, there’s a sharp drop-off in belief, behaviour, and execution.

“The goal is to create research that helps organisations drive inclusion through evidence-based research”
Belton sees many organisations dealing with inclusion and diversity by conducting surveys and reporting their interpretation of the survey results. This approach lacks rigour. This is part of why he devotes so much time to research partnerships, to help create strictly measured and robust studies that can drive change with hard evidence about what’s happening and what works.

“What you need to do is realise your voice is valid from day one”
Belton rejects a fixed mindset and focuses on cultivating a growth mindset. Secondly, he cultivates an internal locus of control. Rather than assigning control of his life to others or believing that an externally controlled system is responsible for his life outcomes, he frames situations in terms of what he can control and take action on.

The three top takeaways from our conversation for effective boards are:
1. Create a personal board. As a senior leader, it is hard to get good feedback. So, identify three to six people to talk to about your career in a professional context between one and four times a year. This will transform how you get feedback on challenging issues and help you have a priceless sounding board.
2. Realise the voice in your head is just a voice. You don’t have to listen to it. You can ignore or challenge it, which is especially useful for overcoming negative internal narratives.
3. Contribute to the productivity research of the future. Complete the ongoing survey on generational productivity from the London School of Economics and Protiviti. You can complete it here: https://www.protiviti.com/us-en/survey/lse-generations-survey

Boards are complex structures, and it can be overwhelming for a first-time CEO to navigate them successfully. In this episode, we dive into the experiences of a first-time CEO, discussing the challenges she encountered and the strategies she used to handle the intricacies of board dynamics.

In this episode, Dr Sabine Dembkowski, Founder and Managing Partner of Better Boards, speaks with Daphne Mavroudi-Chocholi about her experience working on a board for the first time. Daphne, the Managing Director of RNIB Enterprises, brings a wealth of experience to the table but is, for the first time, a CEO.

“What has surprised me the most, coming from the start-up world, is the governance”
Daphne’s previous experience was in the start-up world. There is an established background in that world, and investors invest in the person and the idea. Now, she is the Managing Director operating within a highly regulated environment. She finds it constantly necessary to consider the right balance between governance, agility, nimbleness, and the ability to make decisions.

“There are two places I really see value coming through. One is honesty, and the other is the idea of working with a board rather than sitting on a board”
Daphne feels very lucky in her board relationships. She sees two areas where the board provides and creates particular value. First, life as a CEO can be a lonely existence. With your board, on the other hand, there’s the opportunity for honest, no-holds-barred conversations, and that space for transparency creates immense value. Secondly, by viewing the board as a partnership relationship, you gain the benefit of a critical friend.

“The most challenging part of working with a board is striking that balance between managing the board, engaging with board members, ensuring alignment, and then actually doing the day-to-day job”
To Daphne, one can be pulled into board work and move away from the business. Or, one can go so deeply into the business that one forgets to update the board.

“What is the shining city on the hill we’re all marching toward?”
Along with an ally in the Chair, Daphne finds storytelling extremely helpful. Storytelling helps create narrative fluency in the common culture and goals that drive the business. It can bring everyone together on the same page, build clarity on why things are being done, and drive everyone forward in the same direction.

“In God we trust; all others bring data”
A second thing immensely helpful to Daphne is an insistence on data. It builds credibility and helps move conversations from opinions and emotions to facts.

“You might as well be honest and transparent at the beginning.”
The final element for Daphne is transparency. She mentions it often because it matters on multiple levels. It builds trust. It helps us understand each other and the business. Above all, transparency helps extract maximum value from the board because when the members understand the story, data, and balance, they can understand how to bring their full range of skills and abilities forward, exponentially magnifying their impact.

The three top takeaways for effective boards from our conversation are:
1. It is imperative to create narrative fluency with your board. Clearly describe the proverbial “Shining City on a Hill” as the whole organisation and the Board marching toward it.
2. Build diversity around the Board table, especially diversity of thought and working style, to challenge the status quo in a good way.
3. Truth will come out – it is best to be honest and transparent.

When companies face increasing uncertainty, they need to lean in and embolden management to do what is right for the business's long-term health. Nowhere is this more pertinent than on the topic of sustainability.
In this podcast, Dr Sabine Dembkowski, Founder and Managing Partner of Better Boards, discusses how board members can help make a difference with Andrew Hobbs from EY's Center for Board Matters across Europe, the Middle East, India, and Africa (EMEIA).

"There's a significant strategic data and information gap at the board level"
One of the big discoveries from the recent EY survey of 200 C-suite or Non-Executive Directors was the data gap. Less than 25% of the total have been identified as leaders on the sustainability and governance front. Leaders were working from a much stronger set of metrics that helped them establish links between ESG decisions and other value-creating objectives.

"Metrics are key for good decision-making"
Effective decision-making on capital allocations for ESG and quantifying returns on investments is impossible without good metrics. Both leaders and followers reported challenges around getting good metrics that allowed them to capture the financial implications of their decisions. It's an area of opportunity.

"It isn't about creating a board full of sustainability experts. It's about encouraging boards, or giving boards enough training to ask the right questions."
Andrew says many boards are seeking members with sustainability skills, but that may not be the right solution to the problem. Instead, boards need training to ask better questions of themselves and management – questions that challenge short-term thinking, probe for a deeper analysis of financial impacts, and encompass more of a holistic, long-term view of what sustainability choices are going to do.

"We're not saying that boards need to do the job of management"
Boards need to be ready to challenge and question decisions to find meaningful solutions. If a target has been set, due to regulations or internal goals, but things are behind, how can boards create accountability and pave the way for a real change in business practices? How can boards create deeper conversations about costs, benefits, and resource allocations?

"All that gathering of data and setting up the systems and controls to report is giving boards and companies insights they didn't previously have"
There is a huge slew of regulations out there, which some companies view as a nuisance. However, Andrew believes that looking at this regulation as a compliance exercise is the wrong mindset and approach. Instead, boards need to look at these and say, "How can we turn this to our advantage?"

"Businesses need to walk the tightrope between growth and governance"
Andrew feels businesses need a balanced approach to governance and growth. One example is the use of artificial intelligence (AI) to advance or monitor sustainability efforts. Boards need to look at the business opportunities it presents and the environmental impacts surrounding the use of AI.

The three top takeaways for effective boards are:
1. Boards are the long-term stewards of an organisation. Boards need to be mindful of what's happening now and deal with that but also need to encourage a focus on the future.
2. Boards need to ask better questions to get better answers and not shy away from the challenges presented.
3. Boards play a key role in linking reporting to a stronger long-term value narrative for investors.