Under the right circumstances, climate-induced migration can aggravate the drivers of violent conflict. In places such as the Middle East and West Africa’s Sahel region, migration during times of environmental precarity can upset delicate social and demographic balances and place additional pressure on local authorities. Left to fester, the results can be deadly. This episode explores this connection between climate change and human mobility in conversation with journalist Peter Schwartzstein, author of the book The Heat and the Fury: On the Frontlines of Climate Violence.

Floods, drought, extreme temperatures, and other climate events have devastated parts of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Repercussions of climate change come on top of years of conflict, which have left countless numbers of people unable to adapt to changing conditions. In response, many have fled, either in short-term displacement or permanent migration. Our podcast speaks with researchers Maryam Abbasi and Nasrat Sayed about how climate change is compelling migration in Afghanistan and Pakistan, layering on top of conflict as a driver for displacement.

Natural disasters and other impacts of climate change are already affecting migration, but often in complex ways. This episode, we speak with Julia Neusner, a lawyer and researcher with the International Refugee Assistance Project. She has conducted surveys and interviews with migrants at the U.S.-Mexico border about whether, where, and how they have experienced climate impacts, and offers some of their stories here. More than 40 percent of respondents said they experienced climate-related disasters, but few said those factors were the primary reason why they moved—offering further evidence of the fact that the linkages between changing climates and migration are not always clearcut.