Fire departments around the U.S. are approaching a tipping point.

At the same time career departments are seeing a drop in applicants, they’re also losing existing firefighters.

This is a problem.

Once upon a time, not so long ago, it was tough to get a job in the fire department.

But now, fewer people line up for those spots.

Maybe it’s generational, maybe it’s just a natural cycle and it’ll change.

Or maybe it’s something more.

Here to discuss that with me is Dr. Reggie Freeman.

He’s the chief risk officer for the HAI Group, based in Cheshire, Connecticut. He’s served as the fire chief of three departments: Oakland, California, Hartfort, Connecticut and Lockheed Martin Aeronautics. He’s also a member of the board of directors of the NFPA.

There’s a constant battle between firefighters who believe that safety on the fireground precludes aggressive tactics.

The opposite is also true.

What’s the compromise between the two?

It seems as if firefighters don’t believe that it’s possible to be both aggressive and safe.

It is, of course, and my guest today is here to offer some suggestions about how you can implement both.

He’s no wimp—he puts Mrs. Smith first, his crew second, and his own personal safety third.

Ryan Scellick is a Captain at the City of Pasco Fire Department, in Washington State. He is the co-owner of Young Officers on Fire which puts on annual conferences, trainings, and manages a national non-profit mentorship group.

What’s potentially harder to locate victims in than a hoarder house?

A stuffed-full self-storage locker.

But that’s exactly what can happen. And even if the victim’s not inside at the time of the fire, their activities may have caused it.

Those storage spaces are frequently climate-controlled, and they’re cheap…maybe $100 a month for a small one.

That makes them seem like a great place to live for someone who can’t afford to rent an apartment.

They aren’t, of course, and occupants who choose to try living in one can become the victim of a fire they can’t escape.

This week, my guest tells us about his experiences with homeless people who tried to make a storage unit home…and regretted it.

Tim Thompson is chief of the Georgetown, Kentucky Fire Department. He’s worked his way up over 19 years of service from firefighter to the boss. He’s also a member of the Kentucky Association of Fire Chiefs.