In today’s episode I talk with author and cultural journalist Melissa Petro about her new book, Shame On: How to Be a Woman in the Age of Mortification. The book explores how, in a patriarchal society, shame is often weaponized against women, keeping them small and lessening their impact. Petro weaves in her own personal story, which included an early stint with sex work and her brush with public humiliation in 2011.

We also talk about Petro’s 20-year journey to a six-figure book deal, the challenges she had selling a previous (PEN-nominated) memoir, and how becoming a mother triggered deeper insights into her own experience with shame. Her journey included interviews with over 150 people, which allowed her to understand how shame can be used as a tool for social control.

----------

“I had this idea that I was going to write a memoir. And for the next 20 something years, I wrote, edited, revised, rewrote, pursued agents, went to the New School [to study] creative nonfiction, and I really was determined to write and publish a memoir. Only recently did it become the project it is.”

----------

Key Takeaways

* Shame as a weapon of control: The book argues that in a patriarchal society, women are indoctrinated to feel shame about almost every aspect of their lives—be it career, motherhood, or personal choices.

* Intersection with motherhood: Melissa’s experience as a mother deeply influenced her understanding of shame. “The shame I experienced as a mother was so profound and familiar," she says. It gave her a broader perspective on societal expectations.

* Hybrid memoir is a story bigger than yourself: A turning point in her writing journey came when her agent, Laura Mazer, told her she didn’t represent memoir. But she also suggested that her story could be about about something bigger. The work of excavating this bigger “what” shifted her writing career.

* Becoming a “shame whisperer”: Beyond her own personal story, the book incorporates insights from over 150 interviews. Melissa describes herself as a “shame whisperer,” someone people naturally open up to with their deepest, most shameful experiences.

* Confessional Essays: The confessional essay boom of the early 2010s was a pivotal moment for Petro and other women. Despite backlash, it gave women permission to tell their stories publicly, breaking down taboos. It led to stories about “complex sexual experiences, including assault and other forms of sexual violence,” which anticipated #MeToo by a few years.

----------

"Shame doesn’t do anything to make us better. It does not make us work harder. It doesn’t make us correct our behavior. Shame just suppresses us, puts us down, and keeps us from rising up."

----------

About Melissa Petro

Melissa Petro is a journalist whose writing has been featured in The Washington Post, Allure, Cosmopolitan, Rolling Stone, Good Housekeeping, The Guardian, InStyle, and many other national publications. She was a finalist for the PEN/Fusion Emerging Writers Prize, and she holds a bachelor in Women’s Studies from Antioch and an MFA in Creative Nonfiction from The New School. She lives with her husband and two young children in Upstate New York.

Credits

This episode was edited and produced by Chérie Newman at Magpie Audio Productions. Theme music is "The Stone Mansion" by BlueDot Productions.

Book coach Joelle Hann—aka “The Brooklyn Book Doctor”—joins me to discuss the journey from book idea to finished product. Joelle delves into common obstacles for first-time authors, the transformative nature of writing, and the importance of mindset and resilience.

She also shares insights from her Book Proposal Academy and highlights trends happening in the publishing industry, especially post-pandemic. Whether you’re stuck at the beginning or seeking to refine your manuscript, this episode provides great guidance on navigating the daunting path to publishing. (This episode was originally released in July 2023.)

---------

"When people get serious about writing a book and fulfilling this desire to have a book, that voice is really loud. Voice that says, no one wants to hear from you. This is not a good idea. It's already been done before. It's not interesting."

---------

Key Takeaways

* What many writers need is “mindset guidance” and “expectations guidance,” says Joelle Hann.

* Developmental editing vs. book coaching: It's not just about refining the manuscript but nurturing the author's confidence and creative process.

* Traditional publishing has shifted, especially since the pandemic. Joelle highlights the pressures on big publishers and how it affects new authors trying to break in.

* One thing that surprises Joelle—and flummoxes new authors—is that while they bring enthusiasm to the process, they also face a big crash when confronted with their inner demons.

* “When you get serious about the thing you want to do, your inner resistance comes and says, hold on a second,” she says. One way around this? Introducing mindfulness and somatic techniques to help authors move past blocks.

* As a book coach, Joelle emphasizes the transformative process of writing, which often reveals bigger personal revelations beyond just the book. For those who face down their inner critics, they often discover unexpected resilience—a key to successful authorship.

---------

"Editors can love a book and think it's phenomenal, still not be able to sign it because they don't have what they call a ‘vision’ for the book, which usually means they can't quite see directly how it'll turn into big sales…Now, that said, people are still getting book deals. My clients are still getting book deals. But it can take more work.”

---------

About Joelle Hann & the Book Proposal Academy

Joelle Hann is a book coach & writer helping authors write their books and proposals, discover their ideas, and harness their creative process. Her clients have been published with Big 5 and independent presses such as TarcherPerigee (Penguin Group), North Star Way (Simon & Schuster), Harper Wave, Workman, Wiley, Sounds True, Shambhala Publications, and more.

Joelle’s Book Proposal Academy is a live, hands-on coaching program to help writers craft a top-tier book proposal, structure their book, write chapters, and prepare to become an author. Pitch a book that agents and editors are excited to buy!

Past clients include authors Jillian Turecki, Sebene Selassie, Amanda Griffith-Atkins, Eileen Rosete, Catherine Simone Gray and more.

This six-month program is the fast track to publishing and making book dreams come true. Learn more and apply here. The next cohort starts October 15th.

Credits

This episode was edited and produced by Chérie Newman at Magpie Audio Productions. Theme music is "The Stone Mansion" by BlueDot Productions.