I’m very excited to share this conversation with 19 year old activist and student, Anika Green. She grew up in an inner city Christian community called Stillwaters in Te Whanganui a Tara which aims to provide a space of belonging, transformation and faith for anyone who needs it. In her childhood home she was surrounded by all kinds of people who loved and cared for her, including homeless people, gang members, sex workers and refugees. She never learnt to view these people through a lens of difference. By hearing their stories and sharing in their grief and joys she learnt about issues of poverty, discrimination and injustice in a very personal and immediate way. By the age of four she was already a passionate advocate for social justice and her commitment has only grown since then.

I used to visit the Stillwaters community when I was at university for the dinners and services they hosted every Friday and Sunday evening. I remember feeling like I’d come across a warm cave in a bleak landscape when I stepped inside. I was moved by the warmth and generosity with which everyone came together to eat, sing, laugh and chat. The experience cut through a sense of isolation in my life. It was refreshing and nourishing to get out of my bubble.

In this conversation with Anika we explore the economics of her childhood home - how they afforded to feed so many people every week, where the energy and resources came from and how they balanced the needs of their family with those of the community. She told me about the home she’s creating for herself with other young students and her vision for how homes with open doors could provide the belonging and dignity people need to thrive.

I was particularly struck by one thing Anika said:

“When you know you’re loved and belong, it’s easy to be selfless.”

To me, this statement speaks to the heart of economic system change. The Good Energy Project has taught me that alternative economic systems which honour the planet and people are possible - but they require a profound shift in the way we relate to each other. As Bryan Ines pointed out in our conversation last year, we need to re-learn how to work together.

Talking with Anika, I had the sense that she lives in a wider field to other people. She has a huge capacity for service and connection because she receives so much from the people around her. She lacks the barriers, fears and indoctrinated ideas that cause other people to shut down.

This conversation spurred some deep reflections of my own sense of belonging and my capacity to open my door and welcome people in. This has been both inspiring and confronting. I don’t think I could live in a home with an open door as Anika does at this stage. I don’t feel I have the capacity, the skills to establish healthy boundaries or a deep enough sense of belonging to draw on. But I feel deeply inspired by the openness and generosity Anika shows and I want to engage in the slow work of opening up and connecting across difference.

It strikes me that unless we find pathways to belonging and ways to heal our own sense of displacement and shame, we won’t have the capacity to show up for each other or the planet.

After interviewing lots of inspiring and knowledgeable experts it was so lovely to sit down with someone I know really well and embark on a journey together. Hanna is such a great storyteller. I was captivated right from the start by her descriptions of her childhood, her uncompromising teenage passion for animals and the environment and the way she veered off her scrupulously developed life-plan (to become a vet like her Dad) into the chaos, beauty and terror of the world.

This is a beautiful story of the way life reveals pathways and hope where we least expect them.

One of the reasons I wanted to interview Hanna now is that her story aligns with a new focus for my project.

(By the way I have some very exciting news - I’ve been funded to continue the Good Energy Project for another year until October 2024!! I feel like I’ve spent my first year just getting my head around the topics of economics and climate change. In the next year I’m really excited to start to explore how I might be able to contribute.)

One of the focuses for the funding being renewed is speaking to more young people - because our ultimate aim is to support young people who will inherit all these challenges. Hanna is quite young - 27. She wants to be part of a more caring and connected economy and world. But it’s really hard when you’re at the beginning of your career, everything is expensive and none of the obvious ways of making money align with your values.

Another focus for my next year is to experiment with creative ways of working with the ideas and needs I’m discovering - I’ve spent my career devising creative interventions to help bring the humanity back to intellectual topics like science and engineering - things like magnificent science variety shows and storytelling events. I also find myself surrounded by creative people - my wife is an arts therapist, my brother and his partner are puppeteers and writers. I find myself drawn to creative people and I’m convinced that whatever the solutions are to these huge problems I’ve been exploring, they will need creativity to succeed. Hanna is one of my thinking partners for imagining what this could look like.

Another thing I think we’ll need, to bring to life the ideas and possibilities I’ve been talking to people about, is some kind of spiritual or cosmological revolution - something that supports us to change ourselves and our fundamental way of seeing the world. I’m not sure I like the word “spirituality” but it expresses something under the surface that effects everything. Lots of my interviewees have eluded to similar things. Hanna has a nice way of describing this.

So Hanna seemed the right person to help introduce some of these new themes and explorations. She’s also just fun to listen to!

I’m really pleased to be able to share this conversation with Max Rashbrooke - journalist, author, academic and expert on economic inequality and democratic renewal. I’ve seen Max around for years in Wellington. I’m pretty sure I remember him at parties a decade ago having rigorous political conversations. I’ve been stoked over the past year to get to know him and bit more.

I loved this conversation! We went right back to Max’s childhood in Eastbourne and learned about his teenage love of sci fi, his core belief that another world is possible and the values of generosity and reciprocity which he holds dear. We explored the connections between poverty and climate change and Max’s vision for the future.

I was struck by the resonances with my last conversation with Hemi Hireme (& Part 2) - the idea that forty years of market economy has stifled our imagination for what’s possible and eroded our faith that government initiatives can make a real difference in people’s lives. As a result many of us feel overwhelmed and fear that nothing works.

Max talks about the importance of being able to connect with people across society and have real conversations about the things that effect us. He says we need real examples of how alternative approaches actually work - not just visions and values. And that these real-life stories are out there - we need to start sharing them more.

“Now is the time for new ideas and frameworks to bubble up,” he says. “Are we building a nurturing society? And what would it take to make New Zealand genuinely the best place to bring up a child?”

I love these questions. It was a hopeful conversation and a remedy for the overwhelm and hopelessness I frequently feel.