In Part 2 of our conversation with Rui Ma on The Negotiation podcast, we explore the evolving consumer tech and innovation landscape in China beyond AI. Rui shares her analysis on the rise of local life services, humanoid robotics, and China's dominance in electric vehicles—highlighting the factors propelling growth and the remaining roadblocks.

We also zoom out to explore the broader dynamics between the U.S. and China’s tech ecosystems. Rui discusses rising tensions, how media and policy shape U.S. perceptions of Chinese tech, and whether meaningful collaboration is still possible.

Finally, Rui reflects on the future of China tech and whether she still believes—as she’s said before—that “the next China is China.” Listen for sharp insights, fresh perspectives, and a grounded look at where things might be headed.

Discussion Points:

• The transformation of China’s consumer tech and local life services landscape
• China's rise in the EV market and what’s fueling it
• The state of humanoid robotics in China vs. the U.S.
• U.S. public and governmental attitudes toward Chinese tech
• How geopolitical tensions are creating siloed ecosystems
• The role of Western media in shaping perceptions of Chinese innovation
• Strategies for fostering cooperation and countering bias
• Rui’s long-term outlook for China’s tech sector

In this episode of The Negotiation, we’re joined once again by Jacob Cooke, Co-founder and CEO of WPIC Marketing + Technologies. Jacob walks us through the key insights from WPIC’s latest data report profiling the fastest-growing consumer segments in China’s e-commerce market. Drawing from GMV data across Tmall, JD.com, and Douyin, the report reveals a story of recovery, consumer optimism, and evolving channel strategies.

Jacob kicks off with an overview of China’s current consumption environment, highlighting a return of consumer confidence fueled by government stimulus, higher disposable incomes, and a willingness to spend. He then breaks down performance across platforms, noting the rapid rise of Douyin and Xiaohongshu, and explaining how brands should adapt to a more fragmented, omnichannel landscape.

We then dive into category-specific insights, from the booming beauty and fashion sectors to the rise of experiential consumption, pet care premiumization, and the ongoing expansion of health and wellness products. Jacob also discusses growth in outdoor and active lifestyle categories, with impressive gains in cycling, hiking, and ski gear.

Stay tuned for an insight-packed discussion that challenges the doom-and-gloom narrative and positions China as a dynamic and essential market for global brands.

Discussion Points

• Why consumer confidence is rebounding in China—and what that means for international brands
• Platform performance: Tmall and JD’s staying power vs. Douyin’s rise in social commerce
• Xiaohongshu’s triple-digit growth trajectory and strategic role for brand discovery
• Beauty and fashion trends: science-backed skincare, expressive makeup, men’s grooming
• The suitcase boom: post-pandemic travel + lifestyle trends = experiential consumption
• What’s fueling China’s demand for fish oil, vitamin B, and dietary fiber
• Outdoor gear goes mainstream: cycling, skiing, hiking, and the crossover with fashion
• Premiumization in pet care: what’s behind the $11.2B market
• Rising spend in the mother and baby category despite falling birth rates
• Key takeaways for brands: adopt an omnichannel, data-driven strategy for growth

In this episode of The Negotiation podcast, host Todd Embley is joined by Rui Ma, a distinguished expert with nearly two decades of experience working in technology and finance in the U.S. and China. Rui provides deep insights into the current landscape of AI, focusing particularly on the competitive dynamics between the U.S. and China. She discusses how geopolitical tensions and export controls have impacted China's AI industry and highlights the resilience and adaptability of Chinese AI firms.

Rui shares detailed perspectives on the state of open-source collaboration in China's AI ecosystem compared to the U.S., and explains the significance of emerging players such as DeepSeek. Additionally, she explores the latest AI advancements from major tech giants like Ant Group and Baidu, as well as the rise of innovative startups like Manus. The conversation also touches on practical AI applications within China, guided by Alibaba's strategy of reducing costs and maximizing use cases. Rui concludes with her thoughts on the future of AI in China, offering an insightful outlook on opportunities and challenges ahead.

Listeners should stay tuned for Part 2, where Rui will discuss additional key trends shaping the broader tech landscape in China.

Discussion Points:

· Comparing strengths and weaknesses in the U.S.-China AI race

· Impact of U.S. export controls on China's AI sector

· Open-source collaboration differences between China and the U.S.

· DeepSeek’s rise and its impact on China's AI landscape

· Recent AI advancements from Ant Group and Baidu

· Emerging key players in China's AI industry, including Manus

· AI application trends in China driven by cost reduction and practical utility

· Rui Ma's outlook on China's AI future