"I hear about people having these powerful spiritual experiences, but I've been a practicing Catholic my whole life and never had one! I guess this is what's normal for me." Our hosts have heard this time and again from faithful Catholics, and they understand -- they too have been there.

In this follow-up to Episode 4 (The Role of Supernatural Experience), Joe and the Frs. Trummer address the all-too-common problem of the Catholic "non-experience" of God. First, they explain and provide context for the frequently misquoted line of Jesus to Thomas the apostle: "Blessed are they who have not seen and yet believe" (John 20:29). The hosts then explain some of the likely explanations for the lack of consolation in many Catholics' lives, particularly desolation, and demonstrate this by each sharing their own testimonies of how, for much of their Christian lives, they experienced little or nothing of God's presence and love, and how they each developed an incorrect theology around their lack of experience which could only perpetuate the problem. Finally, each of the hosts shares how a shift in his perspective would lead to a new Christian experience that is permeated by the supernatural -- and to a frequency and depth he would have never believed possible.