Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Deacon Harrison Garlick explores one of the most striking features of Dante’s Inferno: why the poet places liars, flatterers, and the treacherous in the lowest circles of Hell — deeper than murderers, tyrants, suicides, and even blasphemers.

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Why does Dante rank fraud and treachery as worse sins than violence? What is the spiritual harm of lying? And how is lying profoundly anti-Christ?

Deacon Garlick takes listeners on a deep but accessible journey through:

• The architecture and purpose of Dante’s Inferno
• The nature of truth and the teleology (purpose) of speech
• Why sins against the soul are worse than sins against the body
• The corruption of the intellect as the worst perversion of human nature
• The profound theology of Christ as the Logos — the divine ordering principle of all reality

This episode will challenge you to take lying far more seriously and to see how every lie moves both ourselves and others farther away from Jesus Christ, who declares “I am the Truth.”

00:00 Introduction to Ascend The Great Books Podcast

04:13 Exploring Dante's Inferno: The Spiritual Harm of Lying

06:07 Understanding the Architecture of Hell

15:05 The Nature of Truth and Speech

20:26 The Consequences of Lying vs. Murder

24:24 The Nature of Lying and Its Consequences

30:52 Understanding Logos and Its Significance

• Dante’s moral purpose in writing the Divine Comedy
• The structure of Hell: sins of incontinence vs. sins of malice
• Upper Hell vs. Lower Hell and the City of Dis
• Why flattery appears lower in Hell than murder
• St. Thomas Aquinas on truth: “the conformity of the mind to reality”
• The purpose (telos) of speech: to convey truth and help others conform their minds to reality
• Why lying is a perversion of speech and an attack on the intellect
• The inverted hierarchy of the soul in Hell
• Christ as the Logos (John 1) — the rational structure and ordering principle of all creation
• How lying is an anti-Christ act that divorces the mind from reality and from Jesus Himself
• The spiritual danger of breeding greater errors through falsehood

• “Sins against the soul are always going to be more severe than sins against the body.”
• “The corruption of the best is the worst.”
• “Christ does not say ‘I have come to share a truth with you.’ He says, ‘I am the Truth.’”
• “Every lie moves people farther away from Jesus Christ because you are divorcing the mind from reality.”

Keywords and phrases: spiritual harm of lying, Dante Inferno lying, is lying worse than murder, Dante Inferno flattery, why Dante puts liars in lower hell, spiritual harm of lying Dante, lying worse than violence, Christ as the Logos, logos theology lying, anti-Christ act of lying, Dante hell structure explained, truth and speech Catholic theology, why is lying worse than murder in Dante's Inferno, spiritual consequences of lying Catholic, Dante Inferno fraud vs violence, what is the spiritual harm of lying, lying as anti-Christ act, St Thomas Aquinas truth conformity of mind to reality, John 1 Logos and lying, Dante Inferno sins of malice, treachery in Dante's Inferno, flattery in Dante's hell, Dante Divine Comedy moral lesson, sins against the soul vs body, corruption of the intellect, teleology of speech, Catholic teaching on lying, Aquinas definition of truth, Inferno architecture explained.

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick takes a popular article from The Ascent, a top 100 substack in faith and spirituality, and does a deep dive on CS Lewis, Dante, and the problem of evil (theodicy).

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In this fascinating episode Deacon Garlick explores one of C.S. Lewis’s most striking images: the never-ending winter in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.

Why is it “always winter but never Christmas”?

Far more than a chilly backdrop, Lewis uses the endless cold as a powerful allegory for evil itself. Deacon connects Lewis’ imagery to Dante’s frozen pit at the bottom of Hell in the Inferno, revealing how both Christian master-teachers portray evil not as an opposite of the good, but as a cold, lifeless privation—an absence of heat, motion, and life.

You’ll gain fresh insight into:

- Why evil is best understood as a “hole in the ground” or darkness without light

- How the White Witch’s power to turn creatures to stone mirrors the soul-freezing effect of sin

- The beautiful contrast of Aslan’s warm, life-giving breath (echoing John's Pentecost and the forgiveness of sins)

- The deeper Christian truth that goodness and being are convertible—evil pulls us toward unreality and non-existence

Deacon also shares why reading Narnia to children is such a gift: it trains young minds to love allegory, unlocks the four senses of Scripture, and cultivates a richer, more sacramental view of reality.

Warm, thoughtful, and packed with spiritual wisdom, this episode will leave you with renewed appreciation for Lewis, Dante, and the profound way great stories reveal eternal truths.

If you love C.S. Lewis, Dante, or want to understand the nature of evil more deeply, you won’t want to miss this one!

Episode Chapters:

00:00 Introduction & What’s New on Ascend

01:34 Welcome to Ascend: The Great Books Podcast

03:45 The Ascent Substack & Sister Publication

06:20 The Hidden Meaning of Narnia’s Endless Winter

08:10 Background Story of The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe

11:30 Aslan as Christ Allegory & Benefits of Reading Narnia to Children

15:45 The Four Senses of Scripture (Literal, Allegorical, Moral, Anagogical)

20:10 Why Allegory Matters for Scripture and Reality

23:50 What Is Evil? – Introducing the Problem of Evil (Theodicy)

27:40 Evil as Privation of the Good (Augustine & Aquinas)

32:15 Freedom, Free Will, and the Origin of Evil

36:40 C.S. Lewis: Endless Winter as Allegory for Evil

40:20 The White Witch’s Power & Aslan’s Life-Giving Breath

44:10 Dante’s Inferno: The Frozen Pit of Hell

48:30 God as Love That Moves the Sun and Stars

52:00 Key Lessons: Evil, Being, and Goodness

55:20 Recap & Closing Thoughts

57:40 What’s Coming Next on Ascend

Keywords: C.S. Lewis, Narnia, The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, endless winter Narnia, hidden meaning of Narnia, Narnia allegory, problem of evil, theodicy, Dante Inferno, frozen hell Dante, evil as privation, nature of evil, Aslan Christ allegory, White Witch, Christian allegory, four senses of Scripture, reading Narnia to children, great books podcast, Christian spirituality, privation of the good, evil and free will, Dante and Lewis, spiritual meaning of winter.

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison discusses the last two cantos of the Purgatorio (32-33) with Joshua Charles of Eternal Christendom and Dr. Frank Grabowski of Holy Family Classical School.

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They explore the symbolic significance of Beatrice's role in guiding Dante through his spiritual journey, highlighting her as a representation of divine grace and wisdom. The conversation also touches on the allegorical elements of the sacred tree and the griffin, which symbolize Christ and the intertwining of spiritual and temporal authority.

The episode further examines the complex allegories of spiritual and temporal power, focusing on themes of judgment, schism, and the corruption within the church. The guests discuss Dante's critique of ecclesiastical corruption, particularly involving figures like Boniface VIII and the Avignon Papacy, and how these historical contexts are woven into the narrative. The prophetic visions of church corruption, represented by the harlot and the coming hero, the Greyhound, are analyzed for their implications on Dante's vision of divine justice and societal renewal. The discussion is enriched with references to biblical texts, especially the Book of Revelation, which heavily influences Dante's imagery.

Throughout the episode, the philosophical underpinnings of Dante's work are explored, with particular attention to the influences of Platonic, Augustinian, and Thomistic thought. The conversation transitions from the individual soul's purification journey to broader societal and political reflections, emphasizing the need for harmony between spiritual and temporal powers. The episode concludes with reflections on Dante's vision for renewal and hope, encouraging listeners to consider the allegories as guides for personal sanctification and societal transformation.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Context of the Podcast

03:07 Exploring Dante's Purgatorio

06:02 The Role of Beatrice and Grace

08:50 Imagery and Symbolism in Canto 32

12:06 The Pageant of Church History

15:00 The Griffin and the Tree of Knowledge

17:53 Temporal vs. Spiritual Authority

20:45 The Significance of the Pageant

23:57 Concluding Thoughts on Dante's Vision

29:18 The Role of the Church in Governance

30:01 Wealth and Temptation: The Weight of Luxury

32:13 Temporal Authority vs. Spiritual Purpose

34:26 The Emergence of the Dragon: Schism and Violence

36:05 The Transformation of the Chariot: Corruption and Power

38:47 The Harlot and the Giant: The Church's Grotesque Reality

42:37 Dante's Perspective on the Papacy and Authority

49:35 The Need for a Temporal Leader

55:41 The Prophetic Vision of the Future

01:00:21 The Purifying Power of Temporal Authority

01:04:21 The Role of the Tree in Justice

01:06:47 Understanding the Moral and Anagogical Senses

01:10:46 The Discord Between Heaven and Earth

01:16:42 The Significance of the Two Rivers

01:22:40 Baptism and the Renewal of the Soul

Good work on reading the Purgatorio!

We have a few episodes from THE ASCENT up next and then we are reading the Odyssey.

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick and Dr. Michael West discuss the top of Mount Purgatory: The Earthly Paradise (Cantos 28-31).

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They explore the serene, uncultivated garden where Dante encounters the mysterious Matilda picking flowers, the two rivers (Lethe, which erases the memory of sin, and Eunoe, which restores the memory of good deeds), and the elaborate apocalyptic procession featuring candelabras, elders, symbolic creatures, the griffin-drawn chariot of the Church, and dancers representing the theological and cardinal virtues. The discussion highlights Dante’s use of erotic imagery, classical allusions (Proserpina, Venus, Hero and Leander), and the communal themes running through the Commedia, while noting how Purgatorio depicts the gradual strengthening of the will through spiritual “exercise,” much like physical training.

The conversation then turns to the dramatic appearance of Beatrice in Canto 30, her stern rebuke of Dante for pursuing “shadows of false goods” after her death, and the emotional departure of Virgil, whose guidance ends as Beatrice assumes the role of divine wisdom.

They interpret Canto 31 as a sacramental confession scene in which Dante acknowledges his sins, experiences contrition while gazing at Beatrice’s eyes reflecting the dual-natured griffin (Christ), and is immersed in the River Lethe by Matilda. The hosts reflect on the limits of human reason and mentorship (Virgil), the incarnational role of beauty in leading the soul to God, the necessity of properly ordered eros, and the deeper Christian vision that Eden is not the final destination but a way station toward the beatific vision. The episode ends with anticipation for the conclusion of Purgatorio in the next installment.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Ascend and the Great Books

02:19 Exploring Dante's Purgatorio: Canto 28-31

04:03 Scholarship and Themes in Dante

06:52 The Role of Community in Dante's Works

09:43 Personal Reflections on Purgatorio

12:20 The Earthly Paradise and Its Significance

14:48 Matilda: A Symbol of Beauty and Desire

17:44 The Rivers of Lethe and Eunoë

20:25 The Dichotomy of Memory in Dante's Vision

33:04 The Nature of Confession and Memory

34:32 Exploring Apocalyptic Imagery

38:08 The Role of Virtues in Spiritual Life

45:58 The Significance of the Procession

52:43 The Transition from Virgil to Beatrice

01:04:09 Virgil's Journey and Final Gift

01:05:25 The Role of Mentorship and Growth

01:07:24 The Pain of Separation from Mentors

01:08:58 Understanding Virgil's Absence

01:10:52 Beatrice's Introduction and New Guidance

01:12:22 Beatrice's Sarcasm and Wisdom

01:14:07 The Complexity of Virgil's Guidance

01:15:11 The Nature of True Goodness

01:17:04 The Pursuit of Apparent Goods

01:19:47 Beatrice as an Icon of Divine Beauty

01:21:41 The Role of Pity in Relationships

01:25:56 The Sacrament of Confession

01:27:43 The Importance of Tears and Remorse

01:33:41 The Vision of the Griffin and Christ

Good work reading the great books! Next week, we are joined by Joshua Charles and Dr. Frank Grabowski to end our journey!

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick and Dr. Sarah Berry of the University of Dallas discuss Acedia, Avarice, and part of Gluttony in Cantos 18-22 of the Purgatorio.

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Dr. Sarah Berry joins Deacon Harrison Garlick to explore Cantos 18–22, covering the terrace of sloth (acedia) and the transition into avarice and prodigality. In Canto 18, Virgil delivers a pivotal discourse on love as the root of all human action, explaining that love can be misdirected (pride, envy, wrath), deficient (sloth), or excessive (avarice, gluttony, lust). Berry emphasizes the terrace’s brevity and lack of a formal prayer: “their prayers are their action... the penitents too... are doing the thing as a way of offering up some kind of prayer to God” (Dr. Sarah Berry), with running souls and examples of zeal (Mary’s haste to Elizabeth, Caesar’s swift march) countering sloth’s cooling of love.

The dream of the siren in Canto 19 warns against deceptive earthly goods, while the face-down penance on the avarice terrace forces fixation on the earth once loved excessively: “these are those who had a disordered love of money... goods that can’t be shared” (Dr. Sarah Berry).

Cantos 20–22 deepen the exploration of avarice’s societal and personal consequences. Hugh Capet’s lament in Canto 20 indicts the French dynasty’s greed and sacrilege, including the capture of Boniface VIII. Berry highlights the terrace’s broadened scope: “Dante is really broadening... our awareness of this constellation of problems” beyond mere hoarding or spending. In Canto 21, Statius is released with an earthquake and song, explaining his long purgation on sloth and avarice before moving freely upward. Canto 22 poignantly contrasts Statius (saved through Virgil’s influence and grace) with Virgil himself, who lacks faith despite his virtues. Berry notes the tragedy: “Dante is inviting us... hoping that there is some special providence for Virgil at the end of his journey through purgatory” (Dr. Sarah Berry). The cantos reveal Purgatorio’s hopeful, dynamic nature: purgation reorders love through grace, habituation, and contemplation, moving from deficient to excessive attachments, preparing the soul for divine union.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Ascend and Dante's Purgatorio

02:29 Exploring Dante's Purgatorio: Themes and Structure

04:30 The Importance of Purgatorio in Spiritual Growth

08:32 Understanding Love and Culpability in Purgatorio

12:00 Diving into Canto 18: The Lesson on Love

13:26 Virgil's Discourse on Love and Free Will

17:40 The Nature of Love: Ascent and Culpability

20:31 The Role of Reason in Human Actions

26:01 The Formation of Intellect and Will

33:12 Contrapasso: The Penance of Slothfulness

40:19 Examples of Zeal: Mary and Caesar

42:17 Understanding Zeal and Sloth

47:04 The Subtlety of Sin and Human Effort

52:31 Dreams and Allegory in Purgatory

01:00:27 The Nature of Prayer and Action

01:01:58 Exploring Avarice and Its Consequences

01:20:15 Exploring Dante's Inferno: Sin and Intellect

01:23:03 Wrath and Sloth: Roots of Sin in Purgatorio

01:25:23 Positive Examples: Virtue Against Avarice

01:29:30 Dante's Critique of French Dynasties

01:35:56 The Role of Statius: A New Perspective

01:50:30 Virgil's Tragic Journey: Hope for Salvation?

Keywords

Dante's Purgatorio, Sloth, Love, Virtue, Spiritual Growth, Theology, Literature, Dante, Purgatory, Christian Virtues Dante, Purgatorio, allegory, sin, virtue, divine justice, theology, Mount Purgatory, purgation, salvation

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick and Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson of Pepperdine University discuss cantos 13-17 of Dante's Purgatorio--the purging of envy and wrath.

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Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson joins Deacon Harrison Garlick to discuss Cantos 13–17, covering the terraces of envy (Canto 13) and wrath (Cantos 14–17), with a strong focus on the central discourses in the middle of the Comedy.

In Canto 13, the envious have their eyelids sewn shut with iron wire, a contrapasso that forces them to rely on others and recognize interdependence. Wilson explains: “envy is to look cross-eyed on another's blessings... to look askance,” and the disembodied voices proclaim examples of generosity (Cana, “I am Orestes,” “Love them from whom you’ve suffered evil”), teaching a mindset of abundance over scarcity (Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson). Sapia humbly confesses her envy and malice, contrasting with the divisive souls in Inferno.

Cantos 14–15 transition to wrath, with visions of meekness (Mary and Joseph seeking Jesus, a tyrant sparing a youth, Stephen forgiving his stoners) and Virgil’s discourse on goods: exhaustible earthly goods versus inexhaustible spiritual ones. Wilson notes: “envy stems from a mindset of scarcity versus Mary’s mindset of abundance... able to supply where it looks like there’s not enough in the world” (Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson).

The pivotal Canto 16 (the exact midpoint of the Comedy) features Marco Lombardo’s sermon on free will: “If the present world has gone astray, the cause is in you, look at yourselves” (Marco via transcript). Wilson calls it “the clearest sermon that Dante has about what’s wrong with the world,” emphasizing that sin arises from misused free will, not fate or stars, and critiques the separation of temporal and spiritual powers.

Canto 17 concludes the wrath terrace with Virgil’s discourse on love as the root of all action (“Neither Creator nor creature was ever without love... natural or of the mind” – Virgil via transcript), which can be misdirected, deficient, or excessive. Wilson highlights the shift from reason to grace: “reason can’t do it alone... you need this other kind of intervention” (Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson). The cantos underscore Purgatorio’s hopeful pedagogy: purgation reorders love through grace, habituation, and contemplation, moving from misdirected to deficient love in preparation for the excessive attachments above. Wilson stresses the urgency: “the Purgatorio shows humanity in motion, dynamic humanity... it has the immediacy... that is an urgency to it” (Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson).

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Great Books Podcast

04:06 Exploring Dante's Purgatorio

07:20 The Great Books Program at Pepperdine University

10:18 The Significance of Purgatorio

13:27 Understanding Envy in Purgatorio

16:17 Contrary Virtues: Generosity and Kindness

19:22 The Role of Sight and Blindness in Envy

22:15 Dante's Moral Lessons on Envy

25:14 Comparative Analysis with Inferno

30:33 Dante's Poetic Structure and Contrapasso

32:15 Comparative Analysis of Characters in Inferno and Purgatorio

33:54 The Role of Good and Bad Examples in Moral Education

34:14 The Shift from Temporal to Eternal Mindsets

34:20 Understanding Canto 14: The Importance of Examples

39:35 Canto 15: The Inquiry into Goods and Wrath

49:58 Canto 16: The Purging of Wrath and Examples of Virtue

51:35 Ecstatic Visions and Penitent Souls

52:19 The Tyrant's Moment of Virtue

53:28 Humanity in Purgatorio

54:38 The Role of Mary in Purgatory

56:02 Saint Stephen's Example of Forgiveness

57:12 Virgil's Limitations as a Guide

59:12 The Nature of Freedom in Purgatory

01:03:07 The Importance of Canto 16

01:04:37 Understanding Freedom in Dante's Context

01:07:32 The Role of Law and Governance

01:14:39 Self-Reflection and the State of the World

01:23:48 Exploring Wrath in Purgatory

01:30:57 Understanding the Structure of Purgatory

Keywords: Dante's Purgatorio, Cantos 13-17, spiritual growth, virtues and vices, education, great books, Dante analysis Dante's Divine Comedy, Purgatory, Virtues and Vices, Free Will, Theology, Morality, Literature, Catholic Teaching, Spiritual Journey