Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick and Dr. Daniel Wagner dive into Plato’s Meno as a masterclass in education, contrasting Meno’s stagnant, power-seeking sophistry with his slave boy’s humble, rapid learning during the famous geometry demonstration.

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They explore aporia (perplexity) as a vital pedagogical tool requiring courage and humility, the theory of recollection as a rhetorical device rather than doctrine, and the distinction between stable knowledge (phronesis) and fleeting right opinion (doxa).

Ultimately, virtue is teachable as knowledge, but demands active practice from the student—explaining why even great statesmen like Pericles failed to pass it to their sons. The dialogue emerges as a warning: don’t be a Meno; embrace the discomfort of not-knowing to pursue truth.

“Don’t be a Meno.” - Dr. Wagner

“Learning isn’t just rote memorization… it’s ordered toward nous – intellectual insight into reality.” - Dr. Wagner

“Classical education is the best model of actually conforming the mind to reality." - Dcn. Harrison Garlick

Read Plato’s Meno to see education in action: a proud sophist stays stuck while a humble slave boy learns geometry in minutes, proving that real learning demands courage, humility, and active pursuit of truth. It’s the perfect wake-up call—don’t be a Meno.

HALLOWEEN SPECIAL! In this episode, Deacon Harrison Garlick and Dr. Joseph Boyne explore G.K. Chesterton's short story 'The Chief Mourner of Marne,' discussing its themes, characters, and moral implications.

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They delve into the significance of transformative texts in education, the role of Father Brown as a detective, and the interplay between Gothic literature and Halloween motifs. The conversation highlights the importance of Christian charity and the complexities of forgiveness, ultimately reflecting on the deeper meanings within Chesterton's work and the nature of storytelling.

Keywords: G.K. Chesterton, Father Brown, The Chief Mourner of Marne, Halloween, Gothic literature, Christian charity, transformative texts, literature analysis, podcast, education

The Phaedo is a beautiful dialogue! Join Deacon Harrison Garlick and Dr. Christopher Frey, McFarland Professor of Philosophy at the University of Tulsa, as they conclude their exploration of Plato’s Phaedo, a profound dialogue capturing Socrates’ final hours and his arguments for the soul’s immortality.

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In this episode, Dcn. Garlick and Dr. Frey dive into the second half of the text (72e–118a), unpacking the recollection and affinity arguments, objections from Simmias and Cebes, the concept of misology, the final cause argument, the myth of the afterlife, and Socrates’ enigmatic final words.

Episode Segments

Recollection Argument (72e–77a)

• Socrates argues that learning is recalling preexistent knowledge of forms: “Coming to know something… is actually recollecting.”
• Sense experience, like seeing equal sticks, triggers recollection of perfect forms.
• This suggests the soul exists before birth.
• The argument for forms is distinct from recollection.

Affinity Argument (78b–80b)

• The soul resembles forms, being “divine, immortal, intelligible, uniform,” unlike the mutable body: “The body is… mortal, multiform, dissolvable.”
• Forms are simple and unchanging: “Beauty itself doesn’t change… It would have to be something that isn’t visible.”

Riveting Image and the Philosophical Life (83d)

• Pleasures and pains “rivet the soul to the body and to weld them together."
• Socrates remains calm while others weep, embodying philosophical discipline: “He’s the philosopher… They’re too sunk, they’re too mired in that bodily.”

Objections by Simmias and Cebes (84c–88b)

• Simmias’ harmony view posits the soul as an effect of bodily organization.
• Cebes’ cloak objection suggests the soul may wear out: “Why couldn’t there be a last time which… the soul does eventually wear out?”
• Socrates counters that the soul causes life, not the body.

Misology and the Value of Argument (88c–89e)

• Socrates warns against misology, hating reasoned argument: “There’s no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse.”

Final Cause Argument (95b–107a)

• Socrates’ autobiography reveals dissatisfaction with materialist explanations, seeking purpose.
• The soul’s essential life ensures immortality: “The soul is alive itself in a way that it can’t be taken away… As the fire cannot actually receive coldness, neither can the soul actually receive death.”

Myth of the Afterlife (107d–114c)

• Describes a stratified earth with hollows and Tartarus.
• Souls face judgment or purgation.
• Details may not be literal but encourage virtue.

Socrates’ Death and Final Words (114d–118a)

• Socrates drinks hemlock, called a “pharmacon."
• Final words suggest death as healing: “Crito, we ought to offer a cock to Asclepius… The malady for which he wants to be cured is embodied life itself.”
• Inspires hope, especially for Christians: “If someone like Socrates… can enter it with this much fortitude… how much greater should our hope be?”

Key Takeaways

• The Phaedo’s arguments—recollection, affinity, and final cause—build a case for the soul’s immortality, though not airtight, urging a philosophical life: “The philosophical life is one in which you have to be comfortable with...

Today on Ascend: the Great Books Podcast, we are discussing Plato's Phaedo, or in ancient times, it had the subtitle of On the Soul. It tells of the death of Socrates and his various arguments for the immortality of the soul. The Phaedo is a complicated dialogue. It's a long dialogue, but it's very beautiful and very much worth the effort. So it merits a slow, attentive, and subtle read.

And to help us with this type of read, we are joined by Dr. Christopher Frey, a fantastic thinker who really is going to hold our hand and walk us through these various arguments of the immortality of soul. We're going to discuss the first part this week (up to the theory of recollection) and the second part next week.

So is it beautiful? Yes. Is it difficult? Also, yes, but it's very much worth your time. So join us today for an excellent conversation on Plato's Phaedo with Dr. Christopher Frey.

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Keywords: Plato, Phaedo, Socrates, immortality, philosophy, body and soul, great books, ancient philosophy, dialogue, death

Thank you for joining us!

Today, we are introducing Plato's Phaedo, "on the soul," with Alec Bianco of the Circe Institute and with Athenian Stranger. We'll discuss why to read the great books, why we read Plato, how you should read Plato, and why to read the Phaedo.

We then do a deep dive into the opening of the Phaedo, especially on the setting and the myth of Theseus-where a subtle, attentive read unearths a beautifully rich allusion. We'll end with some advice for first time readers of the Phaedo.

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NEXT TWO WEEKS we'll be joined by Dr. Christopher Frey of the University of Tulsa who will walk us argument by argument through the Phaedo. He's fantastic, don't miss them!

Thank you to all who support the podcast!

ALSO if you want some rich spiritual lessons rooted in the Christian tradition and the great books, go check out Dcn. Garlick at THE ASCENT.

In this episode, Dcn. Harrison Garlick and Dr. Pavlos Papadopoulos dive into Plato’s Crito, a dialogue set in Socrates’ prison cell as he awaits execution. They explore Socrates’ refusal to escape, his debt of gratitude to Athens, and the tension between philosophy and the polis’s poetic traditions. Through engaging analysis, they unpack the dialogue’s themes of justice, piety, and civic obligation, offering insights for first-time readers and drawing parallels to modern liberal democracy.

Dr. Pavlos Papadopoulos, Assistant Professor of Humanities at Wyoming Catholic College, joins the episode. With a BA from St. John’s College and a PhD in politics from the University of Dallas, he brings expertise in Plato, having written his dissertation on the philosopher.

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Summary:

The questions explored about Plato’s Crito reveal key themes of justice, piety, gratitude, and the tension between philosophy and the polis. Socrates’ imprisonment, set against Athens’ cultural life governed by the poetic myth of Theseus, underscores the conflict between philosophical inquiry and the city’s traditional piety, highlighting philosophy’s precarious role in a society shaped by poetry.

His dream of a woman prophesying his arrival in Phthia, echoing Achilles’ fates, reframes his acceptance of death as a philosophical heroism, prioritizing justice over survival.

Crito’s arguments for escape, rooted in emotional appeals to public opinion and familial duty, contrast with Socrates’ rational defense of his obligation to Athens, articulated through the laws as a debt of gratitude that cannot be repaid, distinguishing his view of the city as a fatherland from modern social contract theory’s individualistic framework. The laws’ warning that escape would “destroy” the polis emphasizes the necessity of upholding civic order, while Athens’ allowance of philosophy, despite its antagonism, parallels liberal democracy’s permissive yet flawed support for diverse pursuits.

The references to the Corybantes and God at the dialogue’s end subtly integrate divine sanction with rational argument, affirming Socrates’ serene commitment to justice as both a philosophical and spiritual act, challenging first-time readers to consider the interplay of individual conscience, civic duty, and divine order in navigating moral dilemmas.

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In this episode of the Ascend the Great Books podcast, Deacon Harrison Garlick and Father Justin Brophy, OP, delve into the second part of Plato's Apology, exploring Socrates' defense during his trial. They discuss the significance of Socrates' thoughts on death, virtue, and the role of philosophy in life. The conversation also touches on the influence of Saint Justin Martyr, the relationship between pagans and philosophy, and the concept of the daemon as a guiding force in Socrates' life.

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The episode emphasizes the importance of living a virtuous life and the challenges posed by political life, ultimately highlighting Socrates' role as a gadfly in Athenian society.

Keywords: Plato, Socrates, Apology, philosophy, virtue, Justin Martyr, death, polis, daemon, gadfly, Socrates, philosophy, politics, virtue, democracy, Apology, death, unexamined life, hope, justice

From the guide:

30. What should we learn from the Apology overall?

In Plato’s Apology, Socrates delivers a profound defense against charges of impiety and corrupting the youth, presenting himself as a divinely appointed gadfly to awaken Athens to wisdom and virtue, despite the city’s resistance to his philosophical mission. He distinguishes his authentic philosophy, driven by a true eros for wisdom and obedience to the God, from sophistry and poetic inspiration, emphasizing that the unexamined life is not worth living. Facing a close guilty verdict and death sentence, Socrates refuses to grovel, asserting that a just man cannot be harmed by a worse one, as only unjust acts can scar the soul. He concludes with hope, urging the jury to trust that “a good man cannot be harmed either in life or in death, and that his affairs are not neglected by the gods,” leaving a legacy that challenges Athens and shapes Western civilization. The Apology thus portrays Socrates’ trial as a defense of philosophy itself, highlighting its transformative power and inevitable tension with the democratic polis.

In this episode of Ascend, The Great Books Podcast, host Deacon Harrison Garlick is joined by Fr. Justin Brophy, a Dominican friar and Assistant Professor of Political Science at Providence College, to dive into the first half of Plato’s Apology.

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Check out our collection of guides on the great books!

The discussion explores Socrates’ defense speech at his trial in 399 BC, set against the backdrop of post-Peloponnesian War Athens. The conversation delves into key themes, including the role of Aristophanes’ The Clouds in shaping Socrates’ negative reputation, the tension between philosophy and politics, and the influence of Alcibiades on the charges of impiety and corrupting the youth.

Fr. Brophy and Deacon Garlick examine Socrates’ claim of divine wisdom from the Oracle of Delphi, his distinction between human and divine wisdom, and his refusal to charge fees, distinguishing him from sophists. They also discuss the broader implications of Socrates as a threat to the democratic polis, the conflict between philosophy and poetry, and the natural antagonism between the demos and the great-souled man. The episode highlights Socrates’ pedagogical approach and the relevance of his trial to modern questions of truth, virtue, and societal stability.

Guest Introduction: Fr. Justin Brophy is a Dominican friar and Assistant Professor of Political Science at Providence College, where he has taught for five years. Holding a PhD in political theory from the University of Notre Dame, his teaching interests include ancient and contemporary political theory, philosophical conceptions of the human psyche, and thinkers such as Plato, Augustine, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Freud, and those in the modern Catholic intellectual tradition like Romano Guardini, Joseph Pieper, and Walker Percy.

Fr. Brophy also serves as the director of the Center for Catholic and Dominican Studies at Providence College, fostering mission integration and intellectual exploration. His current research focuses on the political significance of Plato’s Symposium, a dialogue he considers his favorite for its exploration of Eros and its historical context tied to Athens’ decline.

Key Discussion Points:

1. Historical Context: The Apology is set in 399 BC, after Athens’ defeat in the Peloponnesian War (404 BC) and Alcibiades’ assassination (404 BC). The charges of impiety and corrupting the youth may indirectly target Socrates for Alcibiades’ role in Athens’ downfall, constrained by a post-war amnesty (23B-C).
2. Aristophanes’ The Clouds: Socrates addresses old accusations (18a) that he “can make the worst argument the stronger” and “does not believe in the gods,” rooted in Aristophanes’ caricature of him as a sophist and atheist in The Clouds, which shaped public perception and fueled the trial’s charges (19C, 31B-C).
3. Philosophy vs. Politics: Socrates’ philosophical questioning challenges the polis’ laws and cultural norms, making him a political threat. Fr. Brophy notes, “Philosophy… forces you to reevaluate… the regime… the principles of law and… your culture. And that can be dangerous” (17B).
4. Alcibiades’ Influence: Alcibiades, a charismatic figure linked to Socrates, is seen as a key example of corrupting the youth due to his role in the disastrous Sicilian Expedition and defection to Sparta, amplifying fears of Socrates’ influence (23B-C).
5. Socratic Wisdom and the Oracle: Socrates recounts the Oracle of Delphi’s claim that he is the wisest man (20E), leading him to...