Phil first met Chris Whitaker on the radio during lockdown, when Chris published, 'We Begin At The End.'

His extraordinary new book, 'All The Colours of the Dark,' also features a strong teenage lead character, facing some pretty dire circumstances. Chris tells Natalie and Phil he drew on his own early years trauma to create his new hero, Patch. He also opens up about being arrested, accused of a financial crime, just as his last novel was coming out.

And he reveals he's come to love The Muppets' 'Rainbow Connection' song, since writing this book...!

All The Colours of the Dark is a superb book. Read it before you see it on TV, as Universal are currently making it as a three season event.

Trigger Warning: Chris speaks candidly about his own abuse as a child in this episode. This may be triggering for survivors of physical abuse, child abuse or domestic violence.

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Abir Mukherjee is the hugely successful writer of five historical crime novels. He created the Wyndham and Banerjee series of thrillers, starting in 1919 India, each book progressing towards Partition.

His brand new novel - Hunted - is a stand alone contemporary edge of the seat thriller which took Abir over three years to write and resulted in him forming a mentoring group with luminaries such as Val McDermid, Lee Child, Mick Herron and Ruth Ware who all gave different advice on how to craft a contemporary thriller.

Abir explains the writing process and 'turning things up to eleven,' with the action; why his starting point for his books is always his personal anger and he and Natalie bond over living in Surrey and share their fears about just how posh their kids are turning out..!

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Want even more book recommendations? We got 'em for you! There are 8 books to discover from Nat and Phil's reading stacks - ranging from an action thriller to a drama stepped in the '68 music scene, to short stories and a collaborative book featuring dozens of writers. These are all stories that have grabbed our attention, some we've read, some we're mid-read and some we've yet to start, but all sound fascinating and we hope might make choosing that summer read a little bit easier. Have a listen to discover more about:

Fourteen Days edited by Margaret Atwood and Douglas Preston

Eruption by Michael Crichton and James Patterson

The Memo by Lauren Mechling and Rachel Dodes

Colton Gentry's Third Act by Jeff Zentner

They Dream in Gold by Mai Sennaar

The Princess of Las Vegas by Chris Bohjalian

I Love You, I Love You, I Love You by Laura Dockrill

You Like it Darker by Stephen King

Full details on where to get these books and support the podcast at www.bestsellerspodcast.com

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