Dr. Chantelle Thomas chats with Ronica Mukerjee, DNP, MsA, FNP-BC, PMHNP-BC, LAc, a family and psychiatric nurse practitioner and acupuncturist, discusses her multifaceted work, including holistic psychiatry, gender-affirming care, and psychedelic-assisted treatment. She highlights her work with refugees, particularly Haitians, and her efforts to establish a free trans care program. Ronica shares her experiences in Tijuana during COVID-19, providing medical care in a chaotic environment. She emphasizes the need for inclusive, culturally sensitive approaches to mental health and psychedelic therapy, particularly for marginalized communities. Ronica is also developing educational resources to make psychedelic work accessible to a broader audience.

(0:00:34) Introduction

(0:03:14) Work in Mexico and Refugee Health

(0:09:45) Challenges and Experiences in Tijuana

(0:25:16) Psychedelic-Assisted Treatment and Its Impact

(0:47:41) Challenges in Psychedelic Research and Access

(0:49:39) The Role of Psychedelics in Mental Health

(0:50:05) The Future of Psychedelic Therapy and Research

Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/

Integrata: www.integratahealing.com

Ronica Mukerjee, DNP, MsA, FNP-BC, PMHNP-BC, LAc, Assistant Professor of Nursing at CUMC: https://www.nursing.columbia.edu/profile/ronica-mukerjee-dnp

Lykos: https://lykospbc.com

Dr. Chantelle Thomas and Dr. Ingmar Gorman discuss the safety and ethical considerations of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD, including standardization, non-directive approach, and adherence to therapy protocol. They also explore complex power dynamics in therapeutic relationships, ethical nuances of supporting participants in psychedelic studies, and the importance of representing a diverse population in psychedelic trials.

(00:00:00) Introduction

(00:10:30) Therapist-participant relationships in psychedelic-assisted therapy trial.

(00:14:58) Challenges in supporting participants in psychedelic studies after the end of the trial.

(00:23:11) Standardizing therapy for MDMA-assisted therapy trial.

(00:32:11) The importance of non-directional support.

(00:36:37) Operationalizing therapy techniques to ensure consistency and address power imbalances.

(00:43:06) Psychedelic therapy adherence and rating systems.

(00:50:08) Therapist flexibility in the trial.

(00:59:41) Inclusion of diverse participants.

Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/

Integrata: www.integratahealing.com

Dr. Ingmar Gorman: https://www.ingmargorman.com/about

Lykos: https://lykospbc.com

Dr. Chantelle Thomas talks to Dr. Ingmar Gorman about concerns and methodological critiques of MDMA-assisted therapy, including historical boundary violations and inappropriate treatment of participants. They also address adverse event management, inner healing intelligence, and the importance of adapting language and approach to resonate with each individual participant. Additionally, they discuss the ethical complexities of conducting clinical trials, including balancing participant privacy and safety with the need to share information for public advocacy and education. Finally, they delve into the intricacies of trauma therapy, including personal experiences, clinical approaches, and limitations, and emphasize the need for a paradigm shift in clinical practice, prioritizing the client's agency and internal resources for healing.

(0:00:00) Introduction

(0:10:14) FDA's decision on MDMA therapy for PTSD, with focus on ICER and FDA advisory panel reports.

(0:15:21) The benefits and challenges of a clinical trial for treating PTSD.

(0:21:03) Conducting clinical trials with nuanced considerations for ethics, regulations, and participant experiences.

(0:31:52) Adverse events in the trial, with concerns about data accuracy and researcher bias.

(0:44:02) Suicidal ideation and its impact on mental health treatment.

(0:52:23) Clinical trial design and unblinding issues in PTSD treatment study.

(0:59:26) MDMA therapy for trauma, participants' experiences and criticisms.

(1:05:31) Trauma therapy effectiveness and the importance of considering other measures beyond PTSD symptoms.

(1:10:36) Inner healing intelligence in MDMA-assisted therapy.

(1:29:51) MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD, including resourcing and adherence.

Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/

Integrata: www.integratahealing.com

Dr. Ingmar Gorman: https://www.ingmargorman.com/about

Lykos: https://lykospbc.com

Dr. Chantelle Thomas talks to Dr. Chris Stauffer about his unique path to becoming a provider of psychedelic therapy, which began in the theater.

Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/

Integrata: www.integratahealing.com

Dr. Chris Stauffer, MD, Director of SNaP Lab: https://www.chrisstauffermd.com/

Dr. Stauffer (he/they) is Associate Professor of Psychiatry at Oregon Health & Science University (OHSU) and dual board-certified in Psychiatry and Addiction Medicine. Dr. Stauffer is an OHSU medical school alum and completed Adult Psychiatry Residency and an Advanced Neuroscience Research Fellowship at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF). Dr. Stauffer is an MDMA-assisted therapy supervisor, trainer, and educator, is a member of the Oregon Governor's Psilocybin Advisory Board, and has served as an expert psychedelic therapy consultant for various federal agencies. Dr. Stauffer has served in curriculum development, teaching, and mentorship roles for many programs, including the Center for Psychedelic Therapies and Research at the California Institute of Integral Studies, Integrative Psychiatry Institute’s Psychedelic-Assisted Therapy Training, and Naropa University’s Center for Psychedelic Studies.

Dr. Chantelle Thomas and Nick Brüss chat about the common aims and integration of internal family systems therapy (IFS) and psychedelic-assisted therapy.

Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/

Integrata: www.integratahealing.com

Nicholas Brüss, EdD, LMFT: https://psychedelic.support/network/nicholas-bruss-edd-lmft

Dr. Chantelle Thomas and Kevin Franciotti have a wide ranging conversation about new opportunities, risks, and political implications of using psychedelics in recovery.

Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/

Integrata: www.integratahealing.com

Kevin Franciotti: https://www.kevinfranciotticounseling.com/

Dr. Chantelle Thomas chats with Blind Spots producer Andrew Isham about her experience providing ketamine assisted psychotherapy (KAP) at Integrata. They also discuss what the direction of the podcast will be in 2024.

Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/

Integrata: www.integratahealing.com

Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies: https://maps.org/

Polaris Insight Center: https://www.polarisinsight.com/

The Ketamine Training Center: https://theketaminetrainingcenter.com/

Psychedelic Research and Training Institute: https://pratigroup.org/

Dr. Chantelle Thomas connects with Dr. Willa Hall. They discuss their experiences facilitating psychedelic-assisted therapies.  

Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery:

https://windroserecovery.com/

Dr. Willa Hall, Clinical Psychologist:

https://www.nautilussanctuary.org/about#&gid=1326960091&pid=1