“In this movie you've got this guy who's, by all accounts, trying really hard to just keep everything together...That ends up being a much more potent thing for communicating this message than something that's more directly trying to address grief.”

- Andrew Clinnin

Hi, Julia Mark here. I'm honored to share the first installment of my Breathing Wind miniseries called “Doors to Grief.” In this episode, I talk with Andrew Clinnin about how Asteroid City—a visually playful Wes Anderson film—became an unexpected lens for understanding his experience as a young widower.

I know today’s guest, Andrew Clinnin through the online grief group he formed via The Dinner Party. Andrew he has created a wonderful space for people in their 20s and 30s who have experienced partner loss. It was a privilege to learn more about his unique journey.

Whether you’ve seen the film or not, this episode offers a fresh perspective on how stories—both on-screen and in our own lives—shape the way we grieve and grow.

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About Andrew Clinnin:

Andrew Clinnin lives in San Francisco, trying to survive outside his natural midwestern habitat. He’s most often spotted mumbling to himself behind his work computer, camera, or sewing machine. Andrew’s wife Ellen was a stage actor and playwright who died in 2022 after two COVID-cursed years with gastric cancer. But she doesn’t want us to remember her by that last bit.

Mentioned in this episode:

* Asteroid City

* Sarah’s conversation with the co-founder of The Dinner Party, Lennon Flowers on Apple Podcasts and Spotify (Season 1, Episode 13)

* doesthedogdie.com: a database of categorized content warnings for movies, television shows, books, video games and more!

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“We need to stay open to this very natural response to how we experience the big losses changes in our lives. And if we can do that — it doesn’t come at once, it doesn’t come in big ahas — but there there is transformation, and there’s healing and wisdom and creative inspiration and new perspectives. There’s so much that we have access to that we may never be moved by or never encounter if we avoid or shut down our grief.”

~ Naila Francis

In this farewell episode, Sarah and Naila revisit the emotionally rich journey of their podcast, celebrating the support and community that has been built. They share poignant clips from past episodes, including conversations with guests like Benjamin Gunning, Lennon Flowers, and Naila Francis, reflecting on themes of grief, resilience, and creativity. As they pass the torch to new potential host Julia Mark, they discuss their future creative endeavors and express deep gratitude to their listeners. The episode emphasizes the importance of allowing grief to be a shared, evolving conversation.

Show notes

Mentioned in this episode:

Episode 2: Never Alone with Benjamin Gunning

Episode 13: The Space to Be Messy with Lennon Flowers

Naila’s first appearance on the podcast, interviewed by Deborah Szeto

Episode 77: Honoring the Full Range of Grief with Rosemerry Wahtola Trommer

Episode 82: Surfer Dan Fischer is Shaping an Active Grief Memorial through One Last Wave Project

Episode 84: Love is the Mother of Grief with Nnenna Freelon

Episode 68: The Possibility of Pleasure with Oceana Sawyer

Season 2 Trailer: What is Healing?

Season 3 Trailer: What is Joy?

Throwing the Bones with Dr. JoAnne Dodgson

“I've been very present to the fact that there have been these huge, huge joys. But every time I meet a huge joy, it just drops me deeper into the grief, which is part of what I always say about grief.

The more you open yourself to the joy, the more you open yourself to the grief and vice versa. So that kind of feels like where my journey has been this summer.”

~ Naila Francis

In this episode, inspired by our conversation with grief activist, author and podcast host Lisa Keefauver, we reflect on where our journeys have taken us these last few months, including the grief we’re both living with. As we invite you into these personal experiences, we share the ways grief continues to surprise and teach us — and how challenging it can be to lean into those lessons that come ‘round again and again. Given all the wisdom Lisa shared with us from her new book, “Grief is A Sneaky B***h” (also the title of her podcast) in the previous episode, we also explore some of the threads that most resonated with us, especially the value of seeking support, which can be tricky to do when you’re the one often giving it. We’re so grateful for Lisa’s work challenging conventional narratives around grief. And we invite you to consider the narratives you hold around loss, how they might be impacting you and how you care for yourself and others in times of grief.

To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes.

“So if our narrative understood that it's emotional and cognitive and physical and spiritual and relational, how might we attend to ourselves differently? How might we attend to other people in our lives differently? How, if we believed it as a culture, would we institute policies and systems that attended to grief differently?”

- Lisa Keefauver

In this episode, we talk with Lisa Keefauver, grief activist, author and podcast host of “Grief is a Sneaky B***h,” about grief as a multidimensional experience that encompasses more than death and more than our emotions. With compelling insight, compassionate warmth, the truth of her own lived experience and her background as a narrative therapist, Lisa shines a light on some of the stories, beliefs and habits that cause us more suffering as we grieve — while also offering tips and suggestions to help soften grief’s hard edges. She talks about the vulnerability and bravery of inviting in support and candidly shares her own struggles with receiving care. In fact, Lisa is nothing but candid throughout this entire episode, as she reflects on grieving and being grateful for her late husband Eric, her journey with breast cancer and what grief has taught her about living a fuller, richer life. You’ll probably want to listen with a journal or come back to this episode again, as, with fall right around the corner, it feels like a timely roadmap to help us all navigate this human experience with more grace for ourselves.

To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes.

“As a death midwife, one of the things many of us do is work on legacy projects with people who are dying and their loved ones, and yet sometimes I think it's really not up to us to know what our legacy is. I can hope it will be this particular thing, but at the end of the day, the people we leave behind are the ones really making the meaning and interpreting our lives for us.”

~Naila Francis

Welcome to our celebratory 100th episode of the Breathing Wind Podcast, where we reflect on some of the recurring themes around grief that have shaped the podcast since it began. We revisit key moments in conversations with a handful of guests that touch on navigating life transitions with openness, the intersection of grief and joy and what it means to leave behind a legacy. As we share from our own grief journeys, we note how challenging it can be to embody emotional self-awareness, the surprising parts of ourselves that show up in the midst of profound change, and whether it’s truly possible to know the impact we leave behind. We do know, however, that this podcast has created a virtual community, and we remain grateful for you, listeners, as well as the growth we’ve experienced, and the future of our shared journey.

To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes.

“I think some of the clearest decisions I've ever made have come in the aftermath of grief.” ~Naila Francis

In this episode, we look back on our enchanting and insightful conversation with Mara June, an educator, facilitator, community weaver, writer, caregiver, death doula and community herbalist. Reflecting on her deep belief in the creative energy inherent in grieving, we discuss grief’s transformative power in our lives and some of the ways we’ve been creatively called to change how we show up in the world. For Sarah, that included re-evaluating her career and the work she was doing, and for Naila, transformation came in waves affecting many areas of her life. As we’ve done across several episodes, we circle back to the presence of joy as part of grief and in particular how grief opens us up to feel more alive by giving us access to the full range of our emotions. We also acknowledge, with gratitude to Mara for naming this, numbness as part of grieving, and explore the idea of bringing tenderness and beauty to death, even in challenging circumstances, as Naila was able to do at her dad’s deathbed, and as Sarah has continued to do by nurturing a connection that was meaningful to her own father. We hope this conversation invites you to make a little more room for your grief and to be gentle with all the changes your journey may be calling you to. As always, we’d love to hear what moved or resonated with you, and we thank you for allowing us to be companions on your journey.

To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes.