So, there are dire wolves living on Earth again. They were “de-extincted” by Colossal Biosciences. And today on the show their Chief Science Officer joins me to share her view on why the de-extinction matters — not as a science project, but because it will help solve problems that threaten every species on earth, including us.

Beth Shapiro is the Chief Science Officer at Colossal Biosciences, and she helped to bring back the dire wolf or, as others call it, a gray wolf with 20 genetic edits. There is a fierce debate about what de-extinction even means, and we discuss that, but whatever you call them, there are now three big wolves living in an undisclosed location and they wouldn't be there if not for the DNA that Beth and her team edited. Colossal is also working to bring back the wooly mammoth, the Tasmanian tiger, the dodo and other animals that have long been extinct. Why?

Listen to find out…

Chapters:

• (01:19) - The Most Oprah Question Beth's Ever Been Asked
• (03:04) - Moonshots Require You to Create a Giant List of Problems
• (04:19) - The Things We’ll Solve Along the Way, a la the Original Moonshot… to the Moon
• (05:57) - Beth’s Journey: From Broadcast Journalism to Ancient DNA
• (09:13) - How a Sediment Core Solved a Mammoth Mystery
• (11:36) - Why Charismatic Animals Matter (a.k.a. Why Riz Is Everything)
• (12:38) - What’s Up With Romulus, Remus, and Khaleesi?
• (14:19) - But Are They Really “Dire Wolves”? The Controversy Over 20 Genetic Edits
• (21:45) - Should We Do This? Beth's Ethics Framework for Builders
• (23:51) - Advice for Moonshot Builders
• (25:10) - Why We Want Dodos, Mammoths, and Thylacines Back

• Colossal Biosciences
• Beth Shapiro
• PopTech -- a conference I love!

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Music by Jonathan Zalben

Murderbots, mass layoffs, and media takeovers — all in one news cycle. Anthropic told the Pentagon "we will not accede." Block cut half its workforce overnight. And the Paramount-Warner Brothers deal raises real questions about who's running the media now.

Also, thanks to Nicolás Maduro's fashion sense, Dan's 13-year-old is being called Lil Tator at school and honestly? The kids are all right.

Happy FAFO Friday!

Here's some of what Kwaku Aning and I get into:

• (00:00) - Three Stories Broke Last Night
• (03:16) - Anthropic Tells the Pentagon No
• (06:24) - Murder Bots, But Human in the Loop
• (07:00) - The Pentagon's Friday Deadline
• (09:28) - Why This Is a Huge Win for Anthropic
• (10:50) - The War for AI Talent
• (12:57) - Is the Administration Losing Steam?
• (15:05) - The Paramount-Warner Brothers Deal
• (17:36) - Who Controls the Media Now?
• (21:13) - CNN, Independent Media, and the Employee Perspective
• (23:55) - Block Lays Off 4,000 People
• (24:14) - The Citrini Research Fiction That Tanked Stocks
• (27:49) - AI Washing and the Real Reason for Layoffs
• (30:11) - Will Vibe Coding Replace Real Companies?
• (33:27) - Mid-Roll Break
• (34:41) - Past, Present, Future: State-Controlled AI
• (35:18) - Past, Present, Future: Independent Media
• (38:03) - — SLAPP Lawsuits and Creator Protections
• (40:23) - — Past, Present, Future: Knicks Championship
• (41:44) - — Come See Us at South by Southwest!

Of all the industries AI will transform, Kira Radinsky believes chemistry and biology will change the most.

Kira is the co-founder and CTO of Diagnostic Robotics, which uses AI to automate the administrative work that's crushing healthcare teams — so clinicians can actually focus on patients. She's also the co-founder of Mana.bio, where they're accelerating drug discovery by orders of magnitude.

She'll tell you she's terrible in the lab. Not because she isn't brilliant, but because she can't pipette without killing the cells. So she’s thrilled that thanks to her skills in data and AI she was able to realize her childhood dream of being a scientist:

But this episode is about more than healthcare. It's about how to build systems that get smarter over time — feedback loops, causal inference, incentivizing algorithms to take risks, and knowing when to optimize for ROI instead of accuracy. Lessons that apply whether you're building in biotech or not.

We cover:

• How growing up Jewish in Soviet Ukraine — and fleeing to Israel just before the Gulf War — shaped Kira's obsession with predicting the future
• How she built a system that successfully predicted real-world events, including Cuba's first cholera outbreak in Cuba in 130 years
• How Mana.bio is using AI to build "rocketships" that deliver drugs to the right cells — and how they've done in three months what used to take 20 years
• Why predictions are only valuable if there's something you can do about them — and why that makes healthcare an ideal field for AI
• How to incentivize algorithms to make bolder predictions (it's easy to predict there won't be an earthquake today; it's much harder to say there will be)
• Why causal inference is the most underrated tool in machine learning right now
• How healthcare AI can perpetuate racial bias — and what builders need to do differently

Note: this interview originally aired in October 2024.

Chapters:

• (01:44) - Why predictions are so important to Kira: lessons from fleeing Soviet-era Kyiv
• (05:10) - Building a prediction engine from 150 years of news
• (08:35) - How Kira predicted the Cuba cholera outbreak
• (09:50) - Returning to biology by way of data
• (12:50) - Predicting healthcare outcomes by finding your patient's twin
• (17:53) - The racial bias hiding in healthcare AI
• (19:15) - Building Mana.bio and accelerating drug discovery
• (24:33) - "In three months, what did what used to take 20 years"
• (31:44) - Builder tips: ROI, causal inference, and teaching algorithms to explore
• (35:07) - Planning: Where generative AI needs improve

• Kira Radinsky on LinkedIn
• Diagnostic Robotics
• Mana.bio

Support Future Around & Find Out

• Get the free newsletter
• And consider becoming a paid subscriber and help future proof this thing!

Sponsor the show?

• Are you looking to reach an audience of senior technologists and decision-makers? Email me: dan@modernproductminds.com

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Music by Jonathan Zalben