In this episode, we welcome Dr. Elisa Eastwood Pulido to discuss her book The Spiritual Evolution of Margarito Bautista: Mexican Mormon Evangelizer, Polygamist Dissident, and Utopian Founder, 1878-1961. Who was Margarito Bautista, and why does he matter? Sometimes called “the Lamanite Prophet”, Margarito Bautista went from faith healing and then life in the Mexican colonies, to helping found the first Spanish-speaking congregation in Salt Lake City, and from being a key member of the Third Convention and authoring dozens of books and pamphlets – to even founding his own colony: Colonia Industrial/Nueva Jerusalen. Included in this story is the “first major piece of LDS thoelogy ever authored by an indigenous convert” in which Bautista combines both indigenous Mexican history and the Book of Mormon into a 571-page book. Margarito Bautista saw in the Book of Mormon and the revelations of Joseph Smith a “prophetic program” for the Mexican people who had forgotten their true Israelite heritage. Moreover, he saw a pattern of reversal in the history of colonialism and an end-times in which an obedient Mexican Israel should found the Holy City in order to welcome the returning Christ, whom they anciently knew even prior to Columbus. Along the way Margarito, being both deeply committed to the Mexican people and to Mormon theology, would eventually be both excommunicated by the LDS church for “rebellion, insubordination, and apostasy”, as well as being expelled from the Third Convention with whom he had been a key part. Dr. Pulido writes that Bautista’s “theological pillars” were “polygamy, communalism, and indigenous priesthood”. Even as the LDS church leadership in Salt Lake City were shifting away from the early commitments of Mormonism – Bautista saw, once the priesthood was among “the Lamanites”, that a redeemed Mexico would be the bastion of a true Christianity that had been restored by the Gentile colonizers who’s time of dominance should be over. Far from being simply speculative theology, Bautista saw a connection even between the Lorenzo Snow couplet – and the social progress and perpetual development of Mexico. Listen in as Dr. Pulido takes us through a tour of one of the more important and challenging lives in the history of the Restoration Movement, and answers the question of whether we should see this charismatic figure, who some saw as a “prophet, seer, and revelator”, as either a tragic figure – or a triumphant figure.

Book: The Spiritual Evolution of Margarito Bautista: Mexican Mormon Evangelizer, Polygamist Dissident, and Utopian Founder, 1878-1961

Also check out: “Margarito Bautista, Mexican Politics, and the Third Convention”

Other resources:

Book of Mormon; Alma 10 and audio clip; D&C 76; D&C 132

“Becoming Like God” (Gospel Topics Essay)

Eduardo Balderas: Father of Church Translation, 1907-1989 by Ignacio Garcia

- Check out our previous interview here

Mormons in Mexico by F. LaMond Tullis

Joseph White Musser: A Mormon Fundamentalist by Cristina Rosetti

King Tiger: The Religious Vision of Reies Lipez Tijerina by Rudy Busto

In this episode, we welcome Dr. Brandon Crowe to discuss his book The Hope of Israel: The Resurrection of Christ in The Acts of the Apostles. What is the Acts of the Apostles, and what is its unique place in the New Testament? To what degree, and in what manner should we view the events of Acts as either historically-unique versus programmatic and meant to be emulated going forward? What were the views of resurrection in the world of Acts, and how would Jesus’ Resurrection stand out as unique? How did witnessing the Resurrection of Christ function when it comes to the authority of the apostles? How was the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost a Christological point? In both the narrative of Acts, as well as the sermons documented therein – the Resurrection functions as the key to understanding Jesus as “both Lord and Christ”, the blessings of the last days, as well as a fulfillment of the Old Testament passages such as Psalm 2. Listen in as, along the way, we ask Dr. Crowe what Peter was referring to when he speaks of “the restoration of all things”, if the Paul presented in Acts is consistent with his own Epistles, and the place of the Temple in the theology of Luke-Acts.

Book: The Hope of Israel: The Resurrection of Christ in The Acts of the Apostles

Other resources by Dr. Crowe:

- The Last Adam: A Theology of the Obedient Life of Jesus in the Gospels

- The Lord Jesus Christ: The Biblical Doctrine of the Person and Work of Christ

- The Message of the General Epistles in the History of Redemption

- The Essential Trinity (edited with Carl Trueman)

Other resources:

The Temple and the Church’s Mission; God Dwells Among Us by G.K. Beale

“The Final Temple” by Edmund Clowney

Scourby YouBible: The Book of Acts

In this episode, we welcome Dr. Bernard Aubert to discuss his article “J. Gresham Machen’s The Virgin Birth of Christ: Then and Now”. What is the context of Machen’s The Virgin Birth of Christ and why was the book so important? Taking us through the overlapping contexts of the Fundamentalism-Modernist Controversy, the Presbyterian Controversy, and a context in the academy where the Hellenization Thesis and the “History of Religion School” was prominent - Dr. Aubert helps us understand this book, in context. Moreover, he takes us through how Machen’s confessional Presbyterian background and classical education, in which historical context and authorial intent are emphasized, aided Machen’s work in New Testament studies. Bringing it all together, Dr. Aubert shows why the topic was key when it came to standards for ministers, in his Presbyterian context – and was a key defense of the historical reliability of the New Testament, the integrity of the Gospels’ presentation of Jesus’ birth, and indeed - the Incarnation, itself. Further aiding our understanding of Machen’s book, we also ask about how the book was received, in its time, as well as how the book’s arguments stood up over time.

Article: “J. Gresham Machen’s The Virgin Birth of Christ: Then and Now”

The Virgin Birth of Christ by J. Gresham Machen

Other resources by Dr. Aubert:

- “Calvin and the Interpretation of Scripture”, Verbum Christi

- The Sheperd-Flock Motif in the Miletus Discourse (Acts 20:17-38) Against its Historical Background

- Reformed Standards of Unity: The Historic Confessions of Faith Confessed by the Presbyterian Churches

Also: check out a database Dr. Aubert did work on that is a comprehensive list of prooftexts in key Reformed confessions: standards.wts.edu

In this episode, Skyler flies solo with some thoughts on the contrast between The Gospel of Mark and Plato's Allegory of the Cave - specifically in regard to what the problem is, who and what the solution is, and what it means to "see". Instead of one's own acquisition of knowledge being a basis of the soul's ascent out of the world, perhaps the Gospel is Truth coming to us and healing us (embodied) in the world, trusting his eyes to see, with hope and patience for a Kingdom to be received by the very Grace who saved us.

One wise and informed warning against some of the symbolic interpretation of the passage is found in the brilliant work of Dr. Lydia McGrew here, here, here and here.