Episodes

  • 206. Newell Bringhurst on President Harold B. Lee

    206. Newell Bringhurst on President Harold B. Lee
    Feb 16 2026
    In this episode, we welcome Dr. Newell G. Bringhurst to discuss his book Harold B. Lee: Life and Thought, 1899-1973. Master administrator and one who helped shape a new generation of orthodox LDS thought and leadership, Harold B. Lee served as the 11th President of the LDS Church. Though only serving as President officially from July 1972-December 1973, the influence of President Lee far outweighs his official tenure. From founding the church-wide Church Welfare Program, serving as an LDS apostle from 1941-1972, to centralizing all church programs under the Priesthood leadership in Correlation (sometimes called “the Lee Revolution”) – Dr. Bringhurst calls Harold B. Lee “the major architect of modern Mormonism”. Given his origins in rural Idaho riding on horseback, one may not have expected President Lee to be the key figure in streamlining and orchestrating the administrative framework that helped facilitate the LDS church in becoming a global institution. Having been President J. Reuben Clark’s protege, Dr. Bringhurst takes us into how this helped shape Lee into one who would himself run the LDS church - as a kind of de facto church president behind the scenes - even long before he became the public head of the institution. With an emphasis on worthiness and obedience in the theology he taught, Harold B. Lee also had a significant impact on maintaining and handing on the LDS church’s longstanding temple and priesthood ban on black people. Listen in as Dr. Bringhurst takes us through some highlights and big picture analysis of the legacy of President Harold B. Lee, including his battle between personalities like Elder Hugh B. Brown and future church President Ezra Taft Benson. From his administrative changes, to those whom he mentored and tutored – one can truly say that the legacy of Lee is has not yet ended, as we continue to see his influence throughout the LDS church today.Book: Harold B. Lee: Life and Thought, 1899-1973Other resources by Dr. Bringhurst:- Saints, Slaves, and Blacks: The Changing Place of Blacks People within Mormonism- Brigham Young and the Expanding American Frontier- Fawn McKay Brodie: A Biographer’s Life- The Persistence of Polygamy: Joseph Smith and the Origins of Mormon Polygamy- The Mormon Church and Blacks: A Documentary History - Thunder from the Right: Ezra Taft Benson in Mormonism and Politics- Reconsidering No Man Knows My HistoryAlso, some important resources by Dr. Matthew Harris:- Watchman on the Tower: Ezra Taft Benson and the Making of the Mormon Right(also check out our interview about the book here and here)- Second-Class Saints: Black Mormons and the Struggle for Racial EqualityPresident Harold B. Lee resources:Official ManualYouth and the Church (1945)Decisions for Successful Living (1973)Stand Ye in Holy Places (1974)Ye are the Light of the World (1974)"The Iron Rod” (April 1971)“’Watch That Ye May Be Ready’” (October 1971)“Responsibilities of the Priesthood” (October 1971)“The Strength of the Priesthood” (April 1972)“A Time of Decision” (April 1972)“’May the Kingdom of God Go Forth’” (October 1972)“Teach the Gospel of Salvation” (October 1972)“Admonitions for the Priesthood of God” (October 1972)“A Blessing for the Saints” (October 1972)“Strengthen the Stakes of Zion” (April 1973)“Follow the Leadership of the Church” (April 1973)“’Stand Ye in Holy Places’” (April 1973)“Understanding Who We Are Brings Self-Respect” (October 1973)“General Priesthood Address” (October 1973)“Closing Remarks” (October 1973)BYU Devotionals
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    2 hrs and 24 mins
  • 205. Matthew Bowman on President Joseph Fielding Smith

    205. Matthew Bowman on President Joseph Fielding Smith
    Feb 8 2026
    In this episode, we welcome Dr. Matthew Bowman to discuss his book Joseph Fielding Smith: A Mormon Theologian. President Joseph Fielding Smith, tenth president of the LDS Church (from January 1970-July 1972), is “without question the most important Latter-day Saint theologian of the twentieth century”. Writing at least twenty-five books and pamphlets that touch upon every doctrinal subject, from the nature of God to eschatology, and debating everyone from Protestants to the RLDS to even fellow General Authorities – it is nearly impossible to measure the influence Fielding Smith had upon the LDS church, laity and general authority alike. From his emphasis on LDS scripture and ritual to his pessimism toward notions of progress based upon science, Dr. Bowman takes us through highlights and paradoxes that define and characterize his work from start to finish. How did Fielding Smith define scripture, given his commitment to essentials beyond the text (such as LDS Temples)? Why did Fielding Smith oppose the work of his fellow general authorities who were much more open to synthesizing modern science with Mormon theology? What was the story behind the publication of Fielding Smith’s “crowning achievement” Man: His Origin and Destiny in 1954? Is there reason to believe that Fielding Smith hid Joseph Smith’s 1832 First Vision account? Listen in, as Dr. Bowman takes us through this and more as we hear about some highlights of one of the most theologically and administratively significant LDS apostles and LDS church President-Prophets.Book: Joseph Fielding Smith: A Mormon TheologianOther resources by Dr. Bowman:- The Mormon People: The Making of an American Faith- Christian: The Politics of a Word in America- The Urban Pulpit: New York City and the Fate of Liberal EvangelicalismCheck out: Official ManualSome resources by Joseph Fielding Smith:Essentials in Church HistoryTeachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith (edited)The Way to PerfectionThe Progress of ManSigns of the TimesMan: His Origin and DestinyDoctrines of Salvation (3 volumes)Answers to Gospel Questions (5 volumes)Some Talks:“The Law of Divine Witnesses” (October 18, 1949)“The Origin of Man” (April 22, 1953)“The Immutable Laws of God” (June 15, 1953)“The Knowledge that Saves” (June 23, 1954)“The Atonement of Jesus Christ” (January 25, 1955)“The Purpose of Mortal Life” (May 1, 1956)“Seeking Salvation in the Kingdom of God” (January 22, 1961)“Essentials of Faith” (June 24, 1964)“The Blessings of Eternal Glory” (April 23, 1968)“Sealing Power and Salvation” (January 12, 1971)General Conference Talks as President of the Church:“Out of Darkness”“Our Responsibilities as Priesthood Holders”“A Witness and a Blessing”“I Know That My Redeemer Liveth”“Blessings of the Priesthood”“Let the Spirit of Oneness Prevail”“Counsel to the Saints and to the World”“Eternal Keys and the Right to Preside”“A Prophet’s Blessing”Other resources:“Another Look at Joseph Smith’s First Vision” by Stan LarsonHistory of the Idea of Progress by Robert NisbetProgress and Religion by Christopher Dawson
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    2 hrs and 24 mins
  • 204. Michael Lawrence on Conversion

    204. Michael Lawrence on Conversion
    Feb 2 2026

    In this episode, we welcome Dr. Michael Lawrence to discuss his book Conversion: How God Creates a People. What is conversion, and specifically – conversion to Christ Jesus, our unique Lord? Why did Nicodemus think being re-born from the physical womb was more reasonable than what Jesus was teaching? Dr. Lawrence takes us through distinctions between a “gospel” of nice and the true Gospel of new, true and false repentance, true and false assurance – and distinguishing the therapeutic pseudo-gospel of self-fulfillment and the real gospel of being born of God, the Holy Spirit and a calling to joy and sorrow. Was the Reformation based in subjectivity, or do Rome and the East project that onto the Reformers to hide legalism and a deadly subjective mysticism of their own? We also discuss the value of the sacraments, how the church isn’t optional, and discuss how a wrong ecclesiology can lead to confusion about the kingdom of God and the kingdoms of this world. Listen in as Dr. Lawrence helps bring clarity in being Bible-based and balanced in our approach into the heart of any true Christian life, both individually and collectively.


    Book: Conversion: How God Creates a People


    A few resources by Dr. Lawrence:

    - “False Repentance Leads to False Conversions”

    - “The False Gospel of Nice”

    - The Acts of the Apostles


    Other resources:

    The Heart of Christ in Heaven Toward Sinners on Earth by Thomas Goodwin

    Confessions; The City of God by Saint Augustine (also here)

    What is the Mission of the Church? by Kevin DeYoung

    Divine Government: God’s Kingship in the Gospel of Mark by R. T. France

    In Defense of the Eschaton by William Dennison (also here, here, here)

    The Witness of the Synoptic Gospels to Christ by Ned Stonehouse

    Justification (2 vol.’s); Recovering our Sanity by Michael Horton
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    1 hr and 24 mins
  • 203. Elisa Pulido on Mormon Prophet: Margarito Bautista

    203. Elisa Pulido on Mormon Prophet: Margarito Bautista
    Jan 26 2026

    In this episode, we welcome Dr. Elisa Eastwood Pulido to discuss her book The Spiritual Evolution of Margarito Bautista: Mexican Mormon Evangelizer, Polygamist Dissident, and Utopian Founder, 1878-1961. Who was Margarito Bautista, and why does he matter? Sometimes called “the Lamanite Prophet”, Margarito Bautista went from faith healing and life in the Mexican colonies - to helping found the first Spanish-speaking congregation in Salt Lake City, and from being a key member of the Third Convention and authoring dozens of books and pamphlets – to even founding his own colony: Colonia Industrial/Nueva Jerusalen. Included in this story is the “first major piece of LDS thoelogy ever authored by an indigenous convert” in which Bautista combines both indigenous Mexican history and the Book of Mormon into a 571-page book. Margarito Bautista saw in the Book of Mormon and the revelations of Joseph Smith a “prophetic program” for the Mexican people who had forgotten their true Israelite heritage. Moreover, he saw a pattern of reversal in the history of colonialism and an end-times in which an obedient Mexican Israel should found the Holy City in order to welcome the returning Christ, whom they anciently knew even prior to Columbus. Along the way Margarito, being both deeply committed to the Mexican people and to Mormon theology, would eventually be both excommunicated by the LDS church for “rebellion, insubordination, and apostasy”, as well as being expelled from the Third Convention with whom he had been a key part. Dr. Pulido writes that Bautista’s “theological pillars” were “polygamy, communalism, and indigenous priesthood”. Even as the LDS church leadership in Salt Lake City were shifting away from the early commitments of Mormonism – Bautista saw, once the priesthood was among “the Lamanites”, that a redeemed Mexico would be the bastion of a true Christianity that had been restored by the Gentile colonizers who’s time of dominance should be over. Far from being simply speculative theology, Bautista saw a connection even between the Lorenzo Snow couplet – and the social progress and perpetual development of Mexico. Listen in as Dr. Pulido takes us through a tour of one of the more important and challenging lives in the history of the Restoration Movement, and answers the question of whether we should see this charismatic figure, who some saw as a “prophet, seer, and revelator”, as either a tragic figure – or a triumphant figure.


    Book: The Spiritual Evolution of Margarito Bautista: Mexican Mormon Evangelizer, Polygamist Dissident, and Utopian Founder, 1878-1961


    Also check out: “Margarito Bautista, Mexican Politics, and the Third Convention”


    Other resources:

    Book of Mormon; Alma 10 and audio clip; D&C 76; D&C 132

    “Becoming Like God” (Gospel Topics Essay)


    Eduardo Balderas: Father of Church Translation, 1907-1989 by Ignacio Garcia

    - Check out our previous interview here


    Mormons in Mexico by F. LaMond Tullis

    Joseph White Musser: A Mormon Fundamentalist by Cristina Rosetti

    King Tiger: The Religious Vision of Reies Lipez Tijerina by Rudy Busto
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    1 hr and 30 mins
  • 202. Brandon Crowe on The Hope of Israel: The Resurrection of Christ in Acts

    202. Brandon Crowe on The Hope of Israel: The Resurrection of Christ in Acts
    Jan 22 2026

    In this episode, we welcome Dr. Brandon Crowe to discuss his book The Hope of Israel: The Resurrection of Christ in The Acts of the Apostles. What is the Acts of the Apostles, and what is its unique place in the New Testament? To what degree, and in what manner should we view the events of Acts as either historically-unique versus programmatic and meant to be emulated going forward? What were the views of resurrection in the world of Acts, and how would Jesus’ Resurrection stand out as unique? How did witnessing the Resurrection of Christ function when it comes to the authority of the apostles? How was the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost a Christological point? In both the narrative of Acts, as well as the sermons documented therein – the Resurrection functions as the key to understanding Jesus as “both Lord and Christ”, the blessings of the last days, as well as a fulfillment of the Old Testament passages such as Psalm 2. Listen in as, along the way, we ask Dr. Crowe what Peter was referring to when he speaks of “the restoration of all things”, if the Paul presented in Acts is consistent with his own Epistles, and the place of the Temple in the theology of Luke-Acts.


    Book: The Hope of Israel: The Resurrection of Christ in The Acts of the Apostles


    Other resources by Dr. Crowe:

    - The Last Adam: A Theology of the Obedient Life of Jesus in the Gospels

    - The Lord Jesus Christ: The Biblical Doctrine of the Person and Work of Christ

    - The Message of the General Epistles in the History of Redemption

    - The Essential Trinity (edited with Carl Trueman)


    Other resources:

    The Temple and the Church’s Mission; God Dwells Among Us by G.K. Beale

    “The Final Temple” by Edmund Clowney


    Scourby YouBible: The Book of Acts
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    1 hr and 10 mins
  • 201. Lydia McGrew on the Historical Reliability of the Acts of the Apostles

    201. Lydia McGrew on the Historical Reliability of the Acts of the Apostles
    Jan 19 2026
    In this episode, we welcome back Dr. Lydia McGrew to discuss the historical reliability of The Acts of the Apostles. What is the book of Acts, and what is its genre? Is there evidence of dependence upon Josephus that necessitates a late date of composition? Is there evidence, both external and internal, of the reliability of the text? Listen in as Lydia takes us through several examples of undesigned coincidences that evince a natural fit of Acts in its time and place, and bring great insight into in our understanding of Paul’s missions and the dating of the composition of his letters. We also ask about the reliability within Acts of the speeches, even given the obvious fact that ancient people don’t have tape recorders. What do skeptics/cynics like Bart Ehrman think about Acts, and why are they wrong? In the end, we ask Lydia about what is at stake for Christianity when it comes to the reliability of the Acts of the Apostles, and why people should care.Book: Hidden in Plain View: Undesigned Coincidences in the Gospels and ActsDr. McGrew’s Website; YouTube Channel; Podcast (also Podcast archive up to October 2024)Also: Reliability of Acts Playlist “Arguments from Silence: The Good, the Bad, the Ugly”Other important books by Dr. McGrew:Testimonies to the Truth: Why You Can Trust the GospelsThe Mirror or the Mask: Liberating the Gospels from Literary DevicesThe Eye of the Beholder: The Gospel of John as Historical ReportageAlso check out our previous interview here: The Historical Reliability of the Gospel of John; The Historical Reliability of the Christmas Story; The Historical Reliability of the Easter StoryOther resources:The Book of Acts in the Setting of Hellenistic History by Colin J. HemerThe Voyage and Shipwreck of St. Paul by James SmithEvidence and Paul’s Journeys by Jefferson WhiteRoman Society and Roman Law in the New Testament by A.N. Sherwin-WhiteScourby YouBible: The Book of Acts
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    1 hr and 30 mins
  • 200. J. Daniel Hays on Race and the Bible

    200. J. Daniel Hays on Race and the Bible
    Jan 12 2026
    In this episode, we welcome Dr. J. Daniel Hays to discuss his book From every People and Nation: A Biblical Theology of Race. Starting with “the multi-ethnic, non-Caucasian cultural context of the Old Testament”, we start with focusing in on an important example: the Kingdom of Cush. Who were the Cushites, and what is some of their key place in history, and the text of Scripture? Why are they key for both identifying blatant past prejudice when it comes to “cultural pre-understanding”, and positively understanding what the Bible teaches about race? Contrary to both white supremacists and the claims coming from groups like the Nation of Islam - far from being artificially imported into the Biblical story, Black Africans have been there even prior to the calling of Abraham. With this, we approach the question of the so-called “Curse of Ham” in Genesis 9, what Dr. Hays calls “one of the most serious and most damaging misinterpretations of Scripture”, and we ask both what the text actually teaches and why it is preposterous to think of this as anything race-based (let alone dealing with black and white skin). Far from a race-based curse of servitude, the descendants of Ham listed in Genesis 10 (including Cushites) historically dominated the Ancient Near East for millennia, and the Kingdom of Cush prospered even well into the Christian period. Who was Moses’ wife, as documented in Numbers 12 - and did this conform or contradict what God revealed through Moses about intermarriage in Exodus and Deuteronomy? What is significant about the Ethiopian Eunuch documented in Acts 8 – and why is it significant for understanding the call of the Gospel that will bless all nations, peoples, and even races. What does Jesus’ teachings involving Samaritans have to teach us about healing centuries of racial strife and prejudice today? Listen in as Dr. Hays helps us see the big picture of the Bible’s teachings on “the nations” – including the deep connection between the Table of Nations in Genesis 10, and that holy vision of the apostle John in Revelation 5; a vision about our receiving the blessed kingdom of racial unity around the worship of the Lamb who conquered sin and death.Book: From Every People and Nation: A Biblical Theology of RaceSome other resources by Dr. Hays:- The Temple and the Tabernacle: A Study of God’s Dwelling Places from Genesis to Revelation- The Pentateuch: Life in the Presence of Godliness- The Ichthus Christogram and Other Early Christian SymbolsOther resources:The Bible and Race by T. B. Maston (published, 1959)Noah’s Curse: The Biblical Justification of American Slavery; The Last Segregated Hour: The Memphis Keel-ins and the Campaign for Southern Church Desegregation by Stephen HaynesGod, Language and Scripture by Moises SilvaThe Kingdom of Kush: Handbook of the Napatan-Meroitic Civilization by Laszlo TorokAncient Nubia: Egypt’s Rival in Africa by David O’ConnorThe Black Kingdom of the Nile by Charles BonnetThe Oxford Handbook of Ancient NubiaUntangling Blackness in Greek Antiquity by Sarah DerbewAfrocentrism by Stephen HoweFrom Slave to Pharaoh: The Black Experience of Ancient Egypt by Donald RedfordThe Black Pharaohs: Egypt’s Nubian Rulers by Robert MarkotScourby YouBible:- The Book of Genesis- The Book of Numbers- The Book of Luke- The Book of Acts- The Book of Revelation
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    1 hr and 44 mins
  • 199. Michael Haykin on the Nicene Creed and the Doctrine of the Trinity

    199. Michael Haykin on the Nicene Creed and the Doctrine of the Trinity
    Jan 5 2026
    In this episode, we welcome back Dr. Michael Haykin to discuss his article: “‘The brilliance of the rainbow’: Athanasius of Alexandria, the Cappodocian Fathers, and the defence of the doctrine of the Trinity”. What is the Scriptural basis, as well as historical development and defense of the Doctrine of the Trinity? Is this development primarily a philosophical enterprise, or is it rooted in the Bible? What was the Arian Controversy, and why the need for the Council of Nicaea in AD 325? Who was Athanasius of Alexandria (“the black dwarf”) – and what was at stake in calling Jesus “god” while not affirming him as of “the same substance” (homoousios) with the Father? Is this an essential issue for true and faithful Christianity? Moreover, Dr. Haykin takes us into some of the changes made between the (325) Creed of Nicaea and the (381) “Nicene Creed”, which is more technically called the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed. Moreover, we hear about some of the major aspects of the Pneumatomachian Controversy, and the need for more clarity when it comes to the total affirmation of the Holy Spirit as God. Who was Basil of Caesarea, and what was at stake in subordinating the Holy Spirit to anything less than “Lord and Giver of Life”? Listen in as Dr. Haykin takes us into the essential nature of the Christian commitment to the Trinity, and he gives us some of his thoughts about the importance of the Nicene Creed today.Article: “‘The brilliance of the rainbow’: Athanasius of Alexandria, the Cappodocian Fathers, and the defence of the doctrine of the Trinity”Other resources by Dr. Haykin:- Patrick of Ireland: His Life and Impact (hear interview here)- Rediscovering the Church Fathers - The Spirit of God:The Exegesis of 1 and 2 Corinthians in the Pneumatomachian Controversy of the Fourth Century - Amidst Us Our Beloved Stands: Recovering Sacrament in the Baptist Traditions - The Missionary Fellowship of William Carey - The God Who Draws Near: An Introduction to Biblical SpiritualityOther resources:Ligonier State of Theology Survey;Among the shocking and tragic r esults regarding American Evangelicals:- 53% agree that “Everyone sins a little, but most people are good by nature.”- 53% think that “The Holy Spirit is a force but is not a personal being.”- 47% believe “God accepts the worship of all religions…”The Essential Trinity edited by Brandon Crowe and Carl TruemanFather, Son, and Spirit in Romans 8 by Ron FayChristianity at the Crossroads by Michael KrugerThe Story of Creeds and Confessions by Donald Fairbairn and Ryan ReevesThe Biblical Canon Lists from Early Christianity by Edmon Gallagher and John MeadeThe Early Christian Fathers edited and translated by Henry Bettenson- On the Incarnation by Athanasius- On the Holy Spirit by Basil the GreatAthanasius of Alexandria by Peter BarnesAthanasius by Alvyn PetersenBasil of Caesarea by Marvin JonesBasil of Caesarea by Philip RousseauChristianity and Classical Culture by Jaroslav PelikanEarly Arianism: A View of Salvation by Robert Gregg and Dennis GrohWhat Every Christian Needs to Know about the Qur’an by James WhiteAudio clips from Scourby YouBible Channel:Book of MatthewBook of 2 CorinthiansBook of PhilippiansBook of 1 PeterSome LDS Resources:Gospel Topics Essay: “Are ‘Mormons’ Christian?”; “Becoming Like God”; “Mother in Heaven”Q15 Statement: “The Father and the Son”; Mosiah15 (also here); Ether 3 (also here); 3 Nephi 11:36- Notice also Joseph Smith Translation (JST) Luke 10:22: “No man knoweth that the Son is the Father, and the Father is the Son, but him to whom the Son will reveal it.” (also here)The Great Apostasy by Elder James Talmage (also here)“Strange Creeds of Christendom” by Elder LeGrand Richards“The Only True God and Jesus Christ Whom Thou Hast Sent” by Elder Jeffrey Holland“The Light of Christ” by Elder Boyd K. Packer (also here; here; here)“Rereading the Council of Nicaea and Its Creed” by Lincoln Blumell, found in Standing Apart: Mormon Historical Consciousness and the Concept of Apostasy, edited by Miranda Wilcox and John YoungThe God Who Weeps; Wrestling the Angel by Terryl Givens INTRO CLIPS:1) Founding Prophet, Joseph Smith: JSH-1 (also here)2) Elder LeGrand Richards: "Strange Creeds of Christendom"3) Elder Bruce R. McConkie: "The Mystery of Godliness"4) Elder Bruce R. McConkie: "Our Relationship with the Lord"5) President/Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley: "We Look to Christ"6) Elder Jeffrey R. Holland: "The Only True God and Jesus Christ Whom He Hath Sent"
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    2 hrs and 2 mins