This week, we're bringing you a special episode with Brian Mclaren on his new book, Life after Doom: Wisdom and Courage for a World Falling Apart. Though we recorded this conversation weeks ago, it feels especially timely now in light of the horrific violence we witnessed this last weekend in the attempt on former President Trump's life, the deadly heat waves and hurricanes happening across the world, and so much else.

This book is an empowering call to action and an invitation to do the kind of inner work that makes us brave in the face of real fear and uncertainty. Brian asks, "What if it doesn't turn out? How will we face the future if things get worse instead of better?" He offers gentle encouragement to reach deeper into ourselves and find a stronger, more resilient type of hope: the kind that, as Václav Havel said, “is not the certainty that things will turn out as we wish, [but] is the conviction that some things are worth doing, no matter how they turn out.”

Brian's insights challenged us to rethink our understanding of end-times, to explore what is worth doing no matter what, and to see the concept of chosenness not as a privilege for a select few, but as a call to loving service for all.

For those of you who have heard Brian before, you already know you're in for a treat. For those who haven't, Brian is a former pastor turned author and public theologian. He's a truly special teacher and someone who's affected the way we live in lasting ways. He seems to see the world and everything in it through the eyes of a "mystic"—in its real interconnectedness and deep spiritual beauty. We're incredibly grateful he came back on the show, and you can find out more about Brian on his website at brianmclaren.net.

We think this episode offers real wisdom and a fresh perspective on how we can navigate these challenging times with faith, hope, and love. And with that, we'll jump right into our conversation with Brian McLaren.

Today, we're resharing an interview we loved with Astrid Tuminez, who we're excited to be hosting as a speaker at Restore this year. Astrid is the President of Utah Valley University and an absolute delight to talk with and listen to. She’s full of stories, humor, and deep insights that made our time with her pass way too quickly.

This interview actually came about because Astrid wrote an essay in Melissa Inouye and Kate Holbrook’s new book Every Needful Thing. We loved Astrid’s essay and knew we wanted to get to know her better.

Astrid has an absolutely fascinating and unique story. She grew up in the slums of the Philippines, but along with her siblings, was discovered to have an exceedingly bright intellect and was offered a free place at one of the most prestigious and expensive Catholic schools in the area. As a child, she was, religiously, a Catholic, but felt that she was always brimming with questions that were being hushed. When she eventually met the Latter-day Saint missionaries, it was a different experience — they gave her a new framework to think about the world, and weren’t afraid to at least try to answer her questions.

Astrid’s pursuit of education eventually took her to the United States, where she graduated summa cum laude with a bachelor's degree in international relations and Russian literature from Brigham Young University. She later earned a master's degree from Harvard University in Soviet Studies and a Ph.D. from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in political science. Before becoming President of UVU, Astrid spent many years in leadership in the corporate, non-profit, and academic worlds.

What we maybe loved most about Astrid was that her unique perspectives make the world of faith and intellect seem expansive, exciting, and adventurous — even full of mystery. She’s found spiritual insight and even practice well outside of Mormonism while simultaneously keeping that “fixed foot,” in the Restored Gospel. In a real way, she’s living Joseph Smith’s injunction to “receive truth, let it come from whence it may.”

We want to send Astrid a huge thanks for coming on the show, and we really think you’re going to love this one. And with that, we’ll jump right in.

Today, we’re thrilled to welcome therapist and podcaster Valerie Hamaker.

In his book Falling Upward, Franciscan priest Richard Rohr uses the metaphor of a container to elaborate on what he calls “the two halves of life.” The first half of life, he says, is for building the structure of the container; the second is for filling it and sharing from it. This concept has been foundational for us in our faith journey over the last 10 years, and today with Valerie, we delved into how everyone’s faith evolves over time, the necessity of structure and identity in early faith development, and the importance of embracing complexity, depth, and paradox as we grow.

One of the tricky parts about faith evolution is that not everyone’s faith evolves in the same way; and because so many of us have built our lives on or around our faith, it can be hard when we see loved ones’ and family members’ beliefs diverge significantly from our own, in any direction. This is a real area of expertise for Valerie in her own practice, and we found her insights on managing complex relationships and spiritual growth super helpful—she helped us see that genuine curiosity can be crucial in navigating complex conversations around beliefs, and explained why we can, and should, let go of any belief that engenders fear.

Valerie is a licensed therapist specializing in marriage and couples work. She owns a private counseling practice in Kansas City, Missouri, and is the host of the Latter Day Struggles Podcast, where she helps Latter-Day Saints understand and navigate their spiritual growth.

This conversation is packed with practical advice for anyone experiencing or supporting others through faith transitions. We hope you find Valerie's insights as enlightening and encouraging as we did. And with that, we’ll jump right into this conversation with Valerie Hamaker.

Note: the research Valerie refers to in this interview was done by Liz Macdonald.