What do people mean when they talk about freedom? Throughout history, that question has often had dark answers, as Pulitzer Prize–winning historian Jefferson Cowie explains in this episode.

“Going all the way back to Athenian democracy is the freedom to enslave, the freedom to oppress, the freedom to dominate,” he tells Felicia and Michael.

In his book, Freedom’s Dominion: A Saga of White Resistance to Federal Power—which won the 2023 Pulitzer for History—Jefferson argues that this kind of freedom is deeply American, and explores the story of one place that exemplifies it: Barbour County, Alabama.

Jefferson takes Michael and Felicia on a journey through the county’s history, highlighting the treatment of the Muscogee Nation, political dynamics during the Reconstruction Era, and the political career of four-time Alabama governor and Barbour County native George Wallace.

And later, Jefferson, Felicia, and Michael discuss the present-day fight over freedom, and the role historians have in this moment of political instability.

Presented by the Roosevelt Institute, The New Republic, and PRX. Generous funding for this podcast was provided by the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation and Omidyar Network. Views expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the opinions and beliefs of its funders.

You can find transcripts and related resources for every episode at howtosaveacountry.org.