Today I'm delighted to be joined by Clive Kinross, CEO and co-founder of Propel Holdings. Propel is one of the most successful fintech lenders serving underbanked consumers, and what makes their story particularly compelling is how they've achieved it: profitably, almost from day one.

Since founding the company 14 years ago with just $4 million in capital, Clive and his three co-founders, who are all still with the company, have built a business that now serves a market of 100 million consumers across the US, Canada, and the UK. The company went public on the Toronto Stock Exchange in 2021 and has been the best-performing stock in its vintage.

In our conversation, Clive shares how his background as a chartered accountant shaped his disciplined, unit economics-focused approach to building a lending business, how Propel uses AI to analyze over 80,000 applications daily and make credit decisions in six seconds, and why he believes the opportunity to serve underbanked consumers in developed economies has never been stronger.

In this podcast you will learn:

• Why Clive decided to tackle credit for his second major business.
• How the company has evolved since its founding 14 years ago.
• The different brands they have in the US, Canada and UK markets.
• How their credit graduation programs work.
• The typical consumer coming to Propel for credit.
• How they differentiate themselves from others in the market.
• How their AI models work and the data they are feeding into these models.
• How Clive views the potential of AI throughout Propel’s business.
• Why he decided to take Propel public in 2021.
• How they were able to become a profitable fintech lender quickly and sustainably.
• What Clive is most excited about for the future of Propel.

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Nubank co-founder Cristina Junquiera joins the podcast to discuss one of fintech's most remarkable success stories, from a Brazilian startup that had customers begging to get off the waitlist to a publicly traded company serving 127 million customers and reaching 60% of Brazilian adults.

In this wide-ranging conversation, Cristina shares the origin story of how three founders from different countries came together to fight complexity in financial services, the challenges of conducting simultaneous IPOs in New York and Sao Paulo to give their customers access, and lessons from expanding into Mexico and Colombia. Most notably, she reveals why Nubank chose the massive US market as their fourth country, detailing their de novo bank charter application with the OCC and her relocation to Miami to lead the charge. Cristina also discusses Nubank's approach to digital assets, their partnership with OpenAI, and why she believes there's far more ahead for the company than behind it.

In this podcast you will learn:

• How Cristina’s time at Brazil’s largest bank prepared her for Nubank.
• How she met David Velez, the CEO and co-founder.
• What she saw was missing in the Brazilian market.
• When they realized that they were on to something special with Nubank.
• What they had to change when they expanded into Brazil.
• How consumers use credit cards different from Brazil to Mexico and Colombia.
• Why they took on the added complexity and cost of allowing their retail customers to participate in their IPO.
• How becoming a public company has impacted their mission.
• With 60% of adults in Brazil, how Nubank can still grow in their home market.
• When they decided that the U.S. was going to be in their expansion plans.
• What they see as the opportunity for Nubank in the U.S.
• Why they decided to file a de novo bank charter application rather than acquire a bank.
• Nubank’s approach to digital assets.
• How they are partnering with OpenAI and their approach to AI in general.
• What Cris is most excited about for this new chapter for Nubank.

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In this special episode recorded live at Money2020 in Las Vegas, we dive deep into what I think is the most transformative development in lending over the past decade: cash flow underwriting. I welcome back to the show Jason Rosen, CEO and co-founder of Prism Data (I last had Jason on the show back in 2019 when he was with Petal), to explore how real-time bank account data is revolutionizing credit assessment in ways that traditional credit scores simply can't match.

Jason explains why the financial disruptions of 2020, from pandemic relief to widespread job changes, exposed critical gaps in conventional credit reporting, and how cash flow underwriting is filling that void. The conversation covers the breakthrough adoption of this technology by major traditional banks, the limitations of FICO scores in capturing a complete financial picture, and why cash flow underwriting represents a once-in-a-century shift in how creditworthiness is measured.

In this podcast you will learn:

• How Jason first got interested in cash flow underwriting.
• The origin story of Prism Data and how it was incubated inside Petal.
• How he describes Prism Data today.
• What goes into building their unique credit models.
• How their CashScore is created.
• What matters most in how they distill all the semi-structured data into a score.
• Why credit decisions are more intuitive when being made with cash flow underwriting.
• The lending categories where they are seeing the most rapid adoption.
• How smaller financial institutions can avoid being left behind.
• Jason’s view on why traditional credit models have become less predictive.
• How lenders are using cash flow underwriting in their application flow.
• How the friction in connecting a bank account is being reduced rapidly.
• The impact of the Chase-Plaid deal on cash flow underwriting.
• What sets Prism Data apart from the others in the cash flow underwriting space.

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In this episode, I sit down with Davi Strazza, who leads Adyen's business in North America. Davi brings a fascinating global perspective on payments, having spent over a decade at Adyen working across Brazil and now the US market. We dive into how Adyen's banking license, which they've held since 2021, fundamentally changes what they can offer to marketplaces, digital businesses, and SaaS companies that need to embed payments and finance into their platforms.

Our conversation explores the competitive dynamics of the payments landscape, the future of stablecoins as a payment rail, and the five critical boxes that payment companies need to check to scale successfully. We also examine what American fintech can learn from Brazil's Pix system, discuss whether pay by bank will gain meaningful traction in the US, and look at how AI is transforming everything from personalized customer experiences to fraud prevention. For anyone interested in the infrastructure powering modern commerce, this is a must-listen conversation about what may be the most exciting time to be in payments.

In this podcast you will learn:

• Davi’s journey in fintech from Brazil to here in North America.
• How he describes Adyen today.
• Why they decided to get their own banking licenses in the US, UK and EU.
• How the banking license helps make their payments business more attractive.
• What is driving their momentum in the US.
• What brands get by working with Adyen over the legacy payments platforms.
• Why they talk about “unified commerce” and what it means exactly.
• How Adyen is preparing for a world where agentic commerce is commonplace.
• Davi’s view on the future of stablecoins as a payment mechanism.
• Whether pay-by-bank has a future in this country.
• What the US can learn from the rapid adoption of Pix in Brazil.
• What he is most excited about for the future of payments.

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In this episode, I sit down with Rich Clow, Head of Innovation and Strategy, Global Payments Solutions at Bank of America, to explore how one of the world's largest financial institutions is approaching payments innovation, such as instant payments and digital wallet technology. Rich shares insights into Bank of America's unique perspective, given their scale of serving tens of millions of consumers and small businesses alongside 40,000 global corporates operating across 140+ currencies.

The conversation delves into the bank's approach to the Paze digital wallet, why instant payments adoption is lagging behind other markets, and the critical importance of accessing real-time payment data to better serve clients. Rich also discusses the challenges and opportunities of driving innovation at scale as well as partnering with fintechs while ensuring the scalability and resiliency needed to support their massive transaction volumes.

In this podcast you will learn:

• Rich’s background and what his role entails at BofA.
• What consumers, small businesses, wealth management and global corporates have in common when it comes to payments.
• BofA’s global footprint outside this country.
• Why instant payments has not taken off here as it has in other countries.
• What use cases for instant payments have the most potential.
• The gap in the market that the Paze digital wallet is addressing.
• How they are measuring success with Paze.
• How their enterprise clients are using Cash Pro, their corporate digital solution.
• What BofA is looking for when partnering with fintechs.
• How they decide whether to build, buy, or partner.
• What Rich is hearing from their clients about use cases for stablecoins.
• What it is going to take for more payments to occur on the new payments rails.
• How their corporate clients are able to work with fintechs through BofA.
• What Rich is most excited about for the future of payments.

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When it comes to paying for a place to live, the economic benefits have always skewed towards homeowners, with renters getting no credit for all their on-time rent payments. But that is changing today. Piñata is helping millions of renters across America build their credit score and earn rewards with their rent payments.

In this episode, CEO and Co-Founder Lily Liu reveals how her company is transforming rent payments into a powerful credit-building tool by reporting on-time payments to all three credit bureaus, while renters earn tangible rewards at everyday brands. Born during the chaos of the pandemic, Piñata has evolved from a two-sided marketplace into a fintech powerhouse now partnering with giants like Freddie Mac to make credit building a standard benefit for renters nationwide. Lily shares the strategic pivots, the regulatory complexities of consumer credit reporting, and why solving this problem required rethinking rent as more than just an expense.

In this podcast you will learn:

• The founding story of Piñata.
• Why launching the company at the height of the pandemic was good timing.
• How they were able to get landlords on board.
• Why they use a carrot, rather than a stick, to encourage renters to pay on time.
• How the Piñata rewards program works for renters.
• The two different ways renters can join Piñata.
• The average increase in credit score for a typical Piñata customer.
• How Piñata is very different to Bilt.
• How they differentiate themselves from others in the credit building space.
• The demographic that is most attracted to Piñata.
• What their partnership with Freddie Mac means.
• Why some renters are opting out of the home ownership dream.
• How Piñata Pay, launching in 2026, will work.
• How they are going to scale Piñata so the majority of people can get credit for rent payments.
• Lily’s vision for the future of Piñata.

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Today, I sit down with Bill Capuzzi, CEO of Apex Fintech Solutions, to explore the critical infrastructure powering modern fintech investing. Bill shares the fascinating journey of Apex from its roots as a pioneer in API-enabled clearing to fractional share trading and becoming the clearing firm behind investment accounts for close to 25 million people across household names like Robinhood, SoFi, and Betterment.

The conversation dives deep into what it takes to be a reliable infrastructure player in fintech, from opening accounts in seconds, to enabling investment globally, to Apex's bold expansion plans with State Street and their strategic embrace of stablecoins. Bill also pulls back the curtain on how Apex uses AI inside the company and shares his perspective on the complex plumbing that makes seamless, modern fintech experiences possible. It's a rare inside look at the unsexy but essential backbone of the fintech revolution.

In this podcast, you will learn:

• Bill’s interesting journey from environmental scientist to fintech entreprenuer.
• Why he decided to join Apex ten years ago.
• How their capabilities were so different to the traditional custodians.
• What a clearing broker does exactly.
• How the idea for fractional share trading came about.
• How they have built their brand in the fintech space.
• Why they are seeing interest from banks and traditional wealth providers today.
• The only two firms that have left Apex and why they left.
• How they are working with the digital assets/stablecoins space today.
• Why they sold Apex Crypto to Bakkt in 2022.
• How they are growing internationally.
• What their partnership with State Street means for Apex.
• What Apex is doing to prepare for the AI-enabled future.
• What Bill is most excited about for the future of Apex.

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In this episode, I sit down with Jon Fry, CEO and co-founder of Lendflow, to explore how AI is transforming the embedded lending landscape. Jon shares his unconventional journey from building websites in college to becoming a key player in embedded lending, including the challenge of launching LendFlow in early 2020—just as COVID shut down the lending market.

The conversation dives deep into how LendFlow's AI-powered platform is making lending more efficient and accessible, why the small business lending space hasn't advanced as quickly as many expected, and what survival through multiple market cycles has taught the industry's most resilient players. Jon paints a compelling vision of the next five to ten years, where AI will create truly magical lending experiences and finally deliver on the promise of embedded finance for small businesses.

In this podcast you will learn:

• How Jon went from building website in college to starting Lendflow.
• What is was like launching a lending software business in early 2020.
• What Lendflow does exactly.
• Who is their core customer.
• What has changed in embedded lending in the last five years.
• How brands can customize their loan offerings with Lendflow’s platform.
• Why Lendflow encourages brands to connect directly with lenders.
• What a neutral embedded lending network is.
• How Lendflow uses AI and what problems it is solving.
• Why we are not quite ready for a fully agentic workflow yet.
• What a fully agentic workflow could look like in the future.
• Why Jon thinks lending software hasn’t developed that quickly in the past decade.
• What he thinks the next five to ten years holds for lending.

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