Fire science should have its place at the fireground, yet I've learned how hard it is to communicate it with the key stakeholder - the firefighters. It's not my isolated experience, and that tension drives our conversation with Steve Kerber, Vice President at UL Research Institutes Fire Safety Research Institute (FSRI). Today we dig into the real craft of communicating fire dynamics to firefighters without losing the truth of the science.

We talk about why experience alone can mislead when every incident is full of unknowns, and how repeatable research can “rewind the tape” to test tactics under controlled conditions. Steve explains how measurements like temperature, heat flux, and toxic gas concentration can clarify what different decisions actually do to survivability and operational time windows. We also get honest about the trust gap between lab work and the messy reality firefighters see every day, especially when buildings and contents evolve faster than training programs.

From there, we get practical: how FSRI listens to a more complete voice of the fragmented fire service using advisory boards and fire service technical panels, how to reach line firefighters through the media and training pathways they already rely on, and why “simplify, don’t dumb down” is the way to teach concepts like ventilation-limited fire, flashover, and ventilation control at scale. Steve shares how video, clear visuals, and well-designed props can build the muscle memory crews need under pressure, plus the story of how research challenged the old fear that exterior water “pushes fire.”

We also cover a clear win where technical research and health research meet: firefighter exposure and cancer prevention, and why that evidence changed behavior across the profession. If you care about fire protection engineering, evidence-based firefighting, firefighter safety, and turning research into real-world outcomes, this one is for you.

The Fire Science Show was built around the mission to communicate better. This is the kind of episode that is perfect for the occasion... as we are celebrating the 5th anniversary of the podcast today! Thank you all for being with us for the 5 years!

If you would like some additional resources:

• https://fsri.org/resources All the resources by FSRI. A masterclass on how good communication looks like.
• Utilizing Research to Enhance Fire Service Knowledge - Steve Kerber's PhD Thesis very relevant to the topic we discuss today

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The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

A national fire statistics system that updates in weeks is not a statistics system, it is a history lesson. We talk with Dr. Craig Weinschenk from UL Research Institutes - Fire Safety Research Institute about NERIS (the National Emergency Response Information System) and why it represents a real shift in fire incident reporting, emergency response data, and fire service analytics across the United States.

We trace the arc from NFIRS, built for paper forms and rigid codes, to a modern cloud based, API driven platform that can scale to tens of thousands of departments and millions of records. Craig explains the practical problems that held fire data back: delayed batch uploads, validation errors that return long after the call, fractured “plus one” local codes, and how hard it was to update incidents when outcomes change. Then we get specific about what NERIS enables: easier updates with full change history, consistent unit typing, staffing counts per apparatus, all hazards reporting, and narrative fields that document impediments so the data keeps real world context.

We also dig into what departments get back immediately: interactive dashboards, geospatial maps, time of day trends, mutual aid linking, and a clearer view of complex incidents that involve suppression, rescue, and medical actions at once. On top of that, NERIS enriches incident records with external data like parcel information and weather, creating new opportunities for fire safety engineering research, community risk reduction, and smarter resource planning while keeping sensitive operational details controlled.

Learn more about the NERIS here: https://fsri.org/programs/neris

Check this webinar to see the live demo: https://fsri.org/program-update/now-available-demand-access-neris-version-1-platform-launch-and-national-rollout

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The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

Jumping straight to CFD has become the default move in fire safety engineering, but that habit can quietly weaken our work: more inputs, more assumptions, more ways to be wrong, and often no clearer link to the actual design question. We sit down with Craig Hofmeister and Brian Klein to unpack a practical, defensible way to choose the right fire model for the job using the SFPE guideline “Substantiating a Fire Model for a Given Application.”

The broad framework of this work is to define the phenomena of interest and questions at hand, then choose the candidate models and evaluate them through set of core qualities, then address the verification and validation of the models, consider uncertainties and user impact, and finally document the whole process.

We walk through the framework step by step, starting where good performance-based design always starts: the questions the model must answer. From sprinkler and detector activation to atrium smoke control, pressurization, visibility and tenability, we talk about translating objectives into key physics and required outputs. That sets up a grounded comparison across hand calculations and algebraic correlations, zone models like CFAST, node network tools like CONTAM and Ventus, and field models like FDS built in PyroSim.

From there, we get into the part many projects rush past: verification versus validation, how to use published V&V evidence (and when you are outside the validated scope), and how uncertainty and user effects should shape your confidence. We also address real-world constraints like AHJ expectations and contract requirements, plus practical tools like sensitivity studies, bounding analysis, and grid sensitivity checks to keep complexity from turning into false precision.

If you want a cleaner way to defend your modeling decisions to reviewers and stakeholders, this conversation gives you a repeatable process you can build into your own practice.

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The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.