In this episode, I’m diving into a question I get all the time: Is legal separation the better option for Christian women in emotionally and spiritually abusive marriages? Or is divorce actually the path to healing and wholeness?

(Please note: this episode is for Christian women considering a more permanent end to their relationship. If that's not you, give this one a pass for today!)

I know how hard it is to navigate these decisions, especially when your faith, your safety, and your identity are all tangled together. I’ve lived it. I’ve wrestled with it. And I’ve coached hundreds of women through it.

So I’m walking you through the differences between legal separation and divorce from a biblical, emotional, financial, and psychological perspective without shame, fear tactics, or pressure. Just clarity, truth, and love.

What You’ll Learn:

• What legal separation really involves (hint: it’s not just sleeping in separate rooms)
• The truth behind “God hates divorce” and what Scripture actually says
• How legal separation can keep you stuck emotionally and financially
• Why divorce might be the healthiest choice for you and your children
• What your church may be getting wrong—and how to respond with courage and grace
• My own story of choosing divorce and what changed in my life after

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Get a free, practical guide to legal separation and divorce that will help you decide what is best for you.
• Some more Flying Free Podcast episodes on divorce and separation: “How Do I Know if Divorce Is the Right Choice for Me?” “Will God Punish Me if I Get a Divorce?” “During Separation, How Do I Deal With an Overwhelming Workload and No Support?”

In this episode, Natalie shares the raw, unfiltered voices of Christian women who took a powerful step toward reclaiming their lives. What begins with deep confusion, spiritual exhaustion, and the belief that “I’m the problem” transforms into clarity, courage, and freedom. This episode is a love letter to every woman who feels stuck in a toxic relationship yet longs for something more.

Through the annual Flying Free satisfaction survey, listeners hear dozens of honest, heart-wrenching, and ultimately hopeful testimonies of what healing looks like when women dare to believe they deserve better.

Key Takeaways:

• You are not the problem. Many women enter Flying Free believing they’re broken. The truth? They’re trapped in harmful belief systems—not failures.
• Healing is possible. Even women who felt suicidal or hopeless now describe themselves as joyful, empowered, and free.
• You don’t have to do it alone. Community and coaching are a lifeline. The kaleidoscope of women in Flying Free offers safety, connection, and understanding.
• Transformation isn’t a miracle—it’s a process. One decision at a time, one new belief at a time, one boundary at a time. And it works.

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Want to learn more about a tool we use inside the program all the time that literally changes lives? Check out Episode 160 of the Flying Free Podcast.

What happens when the man everyone admires is the one silently destroying your soul behind closed doors?

In this gripping episode, I sit down with Lisa: a strong, truth-telling woman who walked through 40 years of emotional and spiritual abuse in her marriage. From the trauma of date rape on her first date, to the covert spiritual manipulation in a seemingly “perfect” Christian home, Lisa vulnerably shares how she survived, how she healed, and how she’s now helping other women rise.

This episode is not just a story. It’s a reclamation.

Key Takeaways:

• “You’re not crazy—he just told you that you were.” Lisa unpacks the slow unraveling of decades of covert abuse masked as devotion.
• How Christian culture kept her trapped in a narrative of self-blame, silence, and “submission.”
• The pivotal role of trauma-informed therapy, especially EMDR, in unlocking the truth and breaking the trauma bond.
• Lisa’s experience with betrayal by Christian counselors and the devastating weaponization of Scripture.
• Why she now calls it an escape—not a divorce.
• The healing power of boundaries, honest storytelling, and godly anger.
• What real love looks like after abuse—and yes, it can come at 66.

Read the full show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Want to listen to some more survivor stories? Check out Erin’s story and Marie’s story.

In this episode of The Flying Free Podcast, we’re talking about a book that forever changed my understanding of evil—M. Scott Peck's People of the Lie.

This isn't about cartoon villains or obvious monsters. I'm talking about the kind of evil that sits in church pews, leads Bible studies, and goes home to emotionally destroy their families while maintaining a pristine public image.

Have you ever felt crazy for questioning someone's "godly" behavior when it leaves you feeling diminished and confused? You're not alone, and you're not imagining things. In this episode, I break down the subtle patterns of evil that hide behind masks of righteousness, especially in Christian contexts.

In this powerful episode, you'll discover:

• Why the most dangerous form of evil isn't loud or obvious, but subtle, polite, and often dressed in religious language and "concern" for your spiritual wellbeing

• How to recognize scapegoating—the psychological process where someone transfers their shame onto you, making you carry the emotional burden for the entire relationship

• The chilling reality of how evil people use virtue and spiritual leadership as masks to hide their true nature, and why religious communities often protect the abuser rather than the abused

• Practical ways to trust your own perceptions again after years of having your reality denied and twisted

If you've ever been told you're overreacting, too sensitive, or not spiritual enough when trying to address harmful behavior, this episode will validate your experience and give you the language to understand what you've been through.

The journey toward freedom begins with recognizing the lies for what they are. Join me as we unpack this transformative book and discover how naming evil is the first step toward reclaiming your life and your truth.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Grab your copy of M. Scott Peck's People of the Lie
• Want to check out some other books I recommend? I have a whole laundry list.

Strap in, ladies. This episode is basically law school meets your best girlfriend telling you how to survive divorce court with a toxic ex who thinks the law is optional and reality is negotiable. I’m joined by Arizona attorney Wendy Hernandez (aka courtroom gladiator and truth-spewer), who unpacks what you really need to know when facing custody battles, financial warfare, and the endless parade of legal shenanigans from an abusive ex.

This episode was originally a private workshop inside the Flying Free Kaleidoscope community, and now it's yours, too. You're welcome. (And also, if you want more, jump in with us!)

Key Takeaways:

• How to get out when you're financially trapped
• What temporary orders are and how they can help you immediately
• Why documentation beats opinions in court, and how to gather it smartly
• Secrets to dealing with exes who refuse to work or disclose income
• How to present strong evidence without being overwhelmed
• Legal options for supervised visitation and protecting your children
• Modifying custody when major life changes occur
• Protecting kids from subtle forms of abuse within court limitations
• How to handle mediators and avoid coerced agreements
• Sanctioning your ex for using the legal system abusively
• The emotional encouragement you need when you feel too overwhelmed to fight back

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Wendy’s YouTube channel: Command the Courtroom
• Her “Best Interests of the Child” checklist
• The “Is Love Resilience” worksheet (traits that resilient women develop to rebuild their lives)
• The “Know Your Rights – Protect. Prepare. Empower. Escape” worksheet
• Our Day’s co-parenting calendar app
• Aimee Says, an AI app to help you craft response, document abuse, prepare for court, and more
• Flying Free Podcast Episode 220 with Wendy: Dealing with Fear During Divorce

Having tried over 1,000 cases during her twenty-seven years as a litigator, Wendy is a courtroom warrior who has tackled every type of family law matter — from divorce to child custody and everything in between. Sharing secrets learned from the country’s top law professors at the University of Notre Dame Law School and during her battles on the family law front lines, Wendy is passionate about helping not only her clients, but also those representing themselves, to feel competent, confident and comfortable in the courtroom.

So many of you come to me and say things like, "Natalie, I was such a doormat. I just stood there and let it all happen."

Listen up, beautiful butterfly: You didn’t “just stand there.” You were resisting the entire time, and no one told you that’s what it was. Until now.

In this episode, I shine a flashlight on the small but powerful acts of resistance Christian women pull off daily in emotionally and spiritually abusive marriages. We’re talking journal-hiding, secret-crying, sanity-preserving, Jesus-whispering defiance that deserves a standing ovation—but probably got met with church lady side-eye instead.

Here’s what you’ll learn:

• What resistance really looks like
• Why keeping your mouth shut can be a power move
• How even the tiniest choice—like skipping his coffee—can be the first domino to freedom
• Why the culture you were raised in trained you to erase your own bravery—and how we’re done with that now

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• This podcast script is inspired by Allan Wade’s article, “Small Acts of Living: Everyday Resistance to Violence and Other Forms of Oppression.”
• Some related Flying Free Podcast episodes you may enjoy: “Should a Christian Wife Submit to an Abusive Husband?” and “An Emotional Recovery Tool That Changes Everything.”

Ever feel like you’re losing your mind but everyone around you says you’re just too sensitive? Welcome to the club you never asked to join. In this episode, I sit down with Erin, a long-time member of the Flying Free Kaleidoscope community, who opens up about her raw and redemptive journey out of emotional and spiritual abuse.

From marrying a man who knew his way around a Bible and a manipulation tactic (convenient, right?) to raising six kids in eight years while being told she was a “terrible housekeeper,” Erin did what so many Christian women are taught to do—sacrifice, submit, and smile. But eventually, she realized something crucial. God wasn’t calling her to be a martyr in her own marriage.

In this episode, you’ll hear:

• The subtle and not-so-subtle red flags Erin missed (like that “I wanted to kiss your sister” comment… um, what?)
• How spiritual gaslighting and weaponized Scripture kept her stuck
• The pivotal moment she knew she had to get out
• What helped her make her escape
• How the Flying Free Kaleidoscope and a few fierce new friendships helped her heal

We talk about the awkwardness of being told you’re abandoning your family when all you’re trying to do is not literally abandon your sanity. Erin’s story is heartbreaking but also full of hope.

So grab your tissues, maybe a pint of Ben and Jerry’s, and hit play. You’ll walk away feeling seen, heard, and a little more brave.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Do you like listening to survivor stories? We have more! Listen to Marie’s story, Laurie’s story, and Stacie’s story.

Hey there, beautiful butterfly! It's Natalie here, and boy do I have an episode for you today that's going to make you feel SEEN in a way that might just take your breath away.

Have you ever found yourself at 3 AM, deep in a Google rabbit hole, trying to make sense of your husband's behavior like you're some kind of undercover FBI agent? Well, I'm here to tell you that this obsession isn't a sign you're losing it—it's actually the FIRST step toward your freedom.

In this episode, I'm breaking down the five stages of recovery from emotional abuse that I've witnessed time and again in my work with thousands of women:

• Discover why your brain's detective mode is actually a necessary part of healing (and why you should stop beating yourself up for "still thinking about him")
• Learn about the powerful moment when your focus shifts from figuring HIM out to reclaiming YOU—and why this is where the real magic happens
• Understand how your healing journey transforms you from a survivor desperately searching for answers to the wise mentor you never had (but always deserved)
• Find out why setting boundaries isn't just about protecting yourself—it's about rediscovering joy and learning to trust yourself again

Remember, healing isn't linear, and every stage serves a purpose. Whether you're analyzing text messages at midnight or helping other women find their wings, you're exactly where you need to be. Grab your coffee (or wine—zero judgment here!), get comfortable, and let me walk you through how this messy, beautiful recovery process really happens.

You are becoming who you were always meant to be. And I promise you, butterfly—you are NOT alone.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Liked this episode? Here are some other episodes and an article that you may find helpful as well:
• Episode 306, “Lessons I’m Learning in Physical Therapy About How We Heal.”
• Episode 277, “What the Healing Journey Looks Like.”
• An article, “7 Steps to Identifying and Healing from an Emotionally Abusive ‘Christian’ Marriage.”