Episodes

  • Dying to Know

    Dying to Know
    Apr 22 2024
    Why are there no bear ghosts? Nearly all the ghosts in the world seem to come from a specific period of time, long before any of us were born. There is a universal obsession with death, so we're going to explore death from the perspective of those left behind. (Traditions about what lays beyond will be the subject of another episode.)We talk about the Shiva tradition in Judaism, and the ghastly tradition of shades that dates back to at least as far as the monarch's encounter with the witch of Endor.We explore some traditions common among Christian denominations, and also WAKES! Another strong ghostly tradition exists among Christians, but not universally shared.We look at funerary and ghostly traditions among Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus, and Zoroastrians; and we take some time to ponder the Ghanaian Fantasy Coffins, and the New Orleans Jazz Funeral. What really deserves attention is the phenomenon of near-death experiences, not that they teach us about the world beyond, but they teach us an awful lot about ourselves. Raymond Moody put a lot of work into that field of NDEs, too bad it's all completely subjective neural chaos. DMT has been reported to offer a similar experience.All this and more.... Support us on Patreon or you can get our merch at Spreadshop.Join the Community on Discord.Learn more great religion factoids on Facebook and Instagram. [00:00:11] Katie Dooley: Hello, Preston.[00:00:12] Preston Meyer: Hi, Katie.[00:00:14] Katie Dooley: Get off your phone.[00:00:15] Preston Meyer: Okay.[00:00:18] Katie Dooley: It'll rot your brain on today's episode of--[00:00:21] Both Speakers: The Holy Watermelon Podcast![00:00:24] Katie Dooley: I don't know how to make a segue into this one.[00:00:27] Preston Meyer: This is a bit of a bummer.[00:00:28] Katie Dooley: It's... I feel like it's a more awkward conversation than even our sex talk.[00:00:33] Preston Meyer: I don't feel like it's more awkward.[00:00:34] Katie Dooley: People don't like talking about death. We're going to talk about some gross things today. [00:00:38] Preston Meyer: A little bit. But yeah, death is around us all the time. Can't really avoid it. That's the deal.[00:00:44] Katie Dooley: No, it's, uh, inevitable. Like Thanos.[00:00:48] Preston Meyer: That's what they say. Yeah, so I was talking to. A person that I work with the other day about his concern with ghosts. He was actually really worried about, um, the Titanic 2 expedition and all that nonsense, but the conversation led very quickly to ghosts, and it boggles my mind that we haven't just agreed that everywhere on the planet is super haunted or nowhere is.[00:01:21] Katie Dooley: I have had that thought as well. Um, I don't disagree with him because. My house alone has been around since the 50s. You can't tell me something hasn't died nearby,[00:01:33] Preston Meyer: Right?[00:01:34] Katie Dooley: Actually, I have heard that there is an unfortunate story with the next-door house, so, um,[00:01:40] Preston Meyer: Tell me more.[00:01:41] Katie Dooley: Uh, apparently someone killed themselves next door before the current people...[00:01:44] Preston Meyer: Bummer. Lived there. Are there haunting stories?[00:01:46] Katie Dooley: Not that I've heard of.[00:01:48] Preston Meyer: Okay. Just the unfortunate circumstances of death.[00:01:51] Katie Dooley: Yes, but that's typically.[00:01:54] Preston Meyer: What leads to a...[00:01:55] Katie Dooley: Haunting story. And I always think about how I'm like, you know, get haunted by your cat or your dog. How come ghosts are only humans? There's no bear ghosts.[00:02:03] Preston Meyer: It's a great question. Cocaine bear has unfinished business.[00:02:09] Katie Dooley: We should name this episode, "How come there are no ghosts?" Though I do really like your title, which we will probably stay with. Um. But I have often thought.[00:02:21] Preston Meyer: Yeah, for sure.[00:02:23] Katie Dooley: Or, like... I don't know...[00:02:25] Preston Meyer: Dinosaur ghosts? Why are we not haunted by the soul of absolutely ravaged Triceratops?[00:02:33] Katie Dooley: And also there's like, I don't know, ghosts feel like they're from a very specific time-period. Like, if you hear, like, how come we all have a ghost kicking around from the 1200s?[00:02:42] Preston Meyer: Right? All ghosts are Dickensian.[00:02:44] Katie Dooley: Yeah, or more modern but, uh, anyway.[00:02:54] Preston Meyer: Death is great, and we have really weird ways of dealing with it.[00:02:58] Katie Dooley: We really do. And I will sort of preface this before we break it down by religion is like we kind of think our way is the right way or the normal way. And reading some of these, some was like, that actually makes a lot of sense on how they handle death. And then some of them, I'm like, that's fucking weird, I won't...[00:03:18] Preston Meyer: Well, if you see one thing often enough, even if you aren't ...
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    1 hr and 17 mins
  • Touched by the Angels

    Touched by the Angels
    Apr 8 2024
    Angels in most traditions are heavenly messengers, and modern pop culture has greatly exaggerated almost every feature. While it makes sense to assume that there are female or feminine angels, each one named in Abrahamic scriptural tradition is a man.The word Angel comes from the Greek Aggelos (lit: messenger), and the Hebrew word Malak has the same meaning. In this episode we explore the groups of archangels listed in various sources, most notably Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, and Uriel, but also including Raguel, Sariel, Remiel, and the Metatron.But more than just a handful of favorite messengers, there are also different kinds of angels, from the baby-faced Cherubim (think of the Renaissance Cupid, though Ezekiel gave them interchangeable animal faces), to the brilliantly dazzling Seraphim (aka fire-folk), to the cosmic horrors known as the Ophanim (the famous "biblically accurate angels" that are simply haunting wheels of eyes and wings and twisted metal)--that last one is dubious in angelic status....Angels show up all over the Hebrew and Christian Bibles, and the entire Quran is said to have been delivered by the same angel that brought Mary and Joseph the news of her pregnancy. In more recent times, works like Paradise Lost and The Divine Comedy have contributed a lot to how we see angels in Western tradition.Angel is also a fair label for demi-god-like beings in other traditions, such as the Devas of Dharmic tradition, the Vördr of Norse tradition, the Yazata (lit: holy) of Mazdeism (aka Zoroastrianism), and the Daemons of Greco-Roman tradition. We consider each of these, and how some are better fits than others for this label.Interpreting Colossians 1:16 to contain a list of angels is ridiculous, and nobody should be that bad at reading.All this and more.... Support us on Patreon or you can get our merch at Spreadshop.Join the Community on Discord.Learn more great religion factoids on Facebook and Instagram. [00:00:11] Katie Dooley: There's a fine. You can go to jail if you... And a fine. There's both. [00:00:19] Preston Meyer: Oh, good. [00:00:19] Katie Dooley: Both a fine and jail. If your phone goes off. [00:00:23] Preston Meyer: That's a bad time. [00:00:24] Katie Dooley: Yeah. It is. You could always ask an angel for help if you go to jail. [00:00:34] Preston Meyer: Ah, there's a lot of stories of people meeting angels in jail. Makes you wonder about those angels, doesn't it? [00:00:39] Katie Dooley: Right. Well, we're gonna explain more on today's episode of. [00:00:43] Both Speakers: The Holy Watermelon Podcast. [00:00:47] Katie Dooley: Yeah. So. I like that. This is. I feel like we haven't done an episode like this in a minute where we talk about a whole bunch of. We talk about a concept in a whole bunch of religions. [00:01:03] Preston Meyer: Yeah, it has been a minute. [00:01:03] Katie Dooley: I'm excited. So we're talking about angels. [00:01:09] Preston Meyer: Say it ainn't so. [00:01:12] Katie Dooley: Or if you were a really bad speller in junior high an angle. [00:01:16] Preston Meyer: I feel like. Yeah, I must have shared it on our discord this Christmas of somebody who shared a collection of angles that they brought to their family. [00:01:25] Katie Dooley: Yeah, there was a girl in junior high with me. I won't call her a friend because she wasn't. But this was when everyone was on MSN, so you had everyone's email. And her email was sweet angle and then some number. I was like, oh boy. [00:01:41] Preston Meyer: Mhm. Yeah. Spelling is important. [00:01:45] Katie Dooley: Yeah. We all have those cringey emails. [00:01:47] Preston Meyer: Well, it's like most people just cannot spell rogue. [00:01:52] Katie Dooley: Almost every time I see somebody try to say rogue they spell rouge. Now, being a Star Wars fan in a French immersion program growing up, I was not going to make that mistake. Instead, I made all kinds of other mistakes of spelling words the French way in an English context. [00:02:07] Katie Dooley: Well, that's good. Um, but speaking of words, tell us where the word angel comes from. [00:02:13] Preston Meyer: So the word angel as it is known in English. Yes, the the word angel, as you know, it comes from the Greek word Angelos, spelt with no Ns but two G's. Huh? You can complain about that, but English does stupid things too. The word means messenger, which is speculated to have been derived from the older word for mounted courier, which I think is just a cool extra layer of meaning to that. The Hebrew word that typically gets translated into angel in the Greek Bibles is malak, which also means messenger. So there's also the last of the Old Testament or Hebrew Bible prophets. In the Christian Bible format because remember they arrange the books differently is Malachi and he's got the perfect name it basically just means my messenger. Was that his name? We'll never know. [00:03:20] Katie Dooley: ...
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    57 mins
  • In the (Hubbard) Navy - An Interview with Katherine Spallino

    In the (Hubbard) Navy - An Interview with Katherine Spallino
    Mar 25 2024
    Katherine Spallino is the author of The Bad Cadet, a memoir of her days as a child-slave to the secretive Scientologist "Sea Org."Before she joined the Sea Org officially, Katherine was raised away from her family in a boarding school for cursed and abandoned children, part of the last batch permitted by the Sea Org before they banned Sea Org members from having children (and naturally started encouraging abortion).In addition to spilling some personal bits that she was forced to leave out of her book, she shares more information about the organization beyond her childhood experience, and gives us an peek at some of the stories that will be in her follow-up book about her leaving Scientology permanently.Katherine tells us about the contradictions between public statements and internal policies, as well as the motivation behind some of the weirdest paperwork you might ever be asked to sign. As a true believer, much of the Sea Org life might seem natural, but to outsiders, it is truly shocking.We also get some hot gossip about the Scientologists hitting headlines, like Danny Masterson, Tom Cruise, and John Travolta, as well as some who managed to get away, like Nicole Kidman and Katie Holmes (both formerly married to Tom Cruise). Katherine also gives us an answer to that great question: Where is Shelly?All this and more.... You can WATCH this interview on YouTube.You can also follow Katherine on Amazon, and Twitter.Support us on Patreon or you can get our merch at Spreadshop.Join the Community on Discord.Learn more great religion factoids on Facebook and Instagram.[00:00:11] Katie Dooley: Hi Preston. [00:00:13] Preston Meyer: Ah it's another great interview episode today. Uh, we've been doing a lot of reading in preparation for this one. [00:00:20] Katie Dooley: Yes uh, we have a fabulous author on today's episode of. [00:00:25] Both Speakers: The Holy Watermelon Podcast. [00:00:28] Preston Meyer: One day we'll get it in. [00:00:31] Katie Dooley: We always try to stay in sync, but usually we're in the same room, so it's easier. But, uh. So. Yes. Welcome, Katherine. [00:00:38] Katherine Spallino: Thank you guys so much for having me. [00:00:41] Preston Meyer: So Katherine grew up on a secluded ranch within the Cadet Org, the Church of Scientology's Sea Org School for children. At a young age, Katherine began to journal about her day to day life, capturing the thoughts and experiences of a child coming of age in a cult. Katherine's background offers the rare opportunity to tell the story of the hundreds of children who rarely saw their parents, and were indoctrinated to become future Sea Org members. Katherine is no longer a Scientologist and lives in Minneapolis with her husband, happily raising three rambunctious boys. [00:01:13] Katie Dooley: So very busy. [00:01:14] Katherine Spallino: That's me. [00:01:16] Katie Dooley: Busy. And, uh, yeah, you gotta have kids. After all that was. [00:01:20] Katherine Spallino: Yes. Yeah, I'm living the dream. Except for I didn't realize children were so hard to raise. When you're a child, you're like, I want to have kids. It sounds so magical. And then you're raising the children and you're in the thick of it, and you're like, this is great, right? [00:01:36] Katie Dooley: Um, and also a little bit different of, like, actually raising your children instead of a ranch. [00:01:42] Katherine Spallino: Yes, exactly. [00:01:43] Preston Meyer: I was always told growing up, you're gonna have kids and they're gonna be just like you. And it sounds like you were a little bit of trouble growing up, too. [00:01:51] Katherine Spallino: Yeah. So I'm kind of getting. I'm reaping what I sowed. [00:01:56] Katie Dooley: I loved I loved where your book ended, but it left so much to know. And I know there's a sequel coming. I'd love to figure out, you know, what eventually made you leave Scientology? And maybe a little preview of the Bad Scientologist. [00:02:11] Katherine Spallino: Yeah, I've decided I will give a little, like spoiler, because I do think it's important for people to understand that I am not a Scientologist. And the book ends. It's it's a spoiler. So you can mute me if you want, if you are going to if anybody listening wants to get the book. But I mean, it's obvious that I'm not in Scientology, so it's not really a spoiler in a way. But I do end the book leaving how it's how I left the Sea Org. But there's a whole nother journey I have to take to leave Scientology. And that's what the, uh, my second novel will be. Because when you're in a cult, you believe something everything's so much, and they teach you to not look at outside information. So it's really hard to leave cults because they're, like, literally trained to not listen to anybody else. So what when I, I was living my best life, when I, when I had left and was living in LA supporting myself at 17 years old, like had my own apartment, out partying on ...
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    1 hr and 6 mins
  • The Alien Escape

    The Alien Escape
    Mar 22 2024

    Bonnie Lu Nettles and Marshall Herff Applewhite, Jr. founded what is known today as Heaven's Gate, a fantastic group of UFO enthusiasts and religious believers. Though they both came from a Christian background in Texas, the mystery of Area 51 affected their daily lives to the very end.

    Nettles was a nurse, and Applewhite was a pastor, but they shared a willingness to adjust their cosmology (and theology) with new information. Before the end, they had biblical arrangement of seer and spokesman, but they were a lot more extreme about sexual abstinence than even your most annoying Christian friend.

    Bonnie and Marshall adopted new names about as often as you might change your shoes--something that Nike would prefer not to talk about.

    While the evidence suggests that Nettles and Applewhite were true believers, going so far as to offer financial support to those who decided their commune wasn't right for them, thing proved dangerous at the end, when Applewhite decided that the spirit of a long deceased Nettles was on a spaceship tailing the Hale-Bopp Comet, which would pass by the Earth in 1997.

    Fearing an unprovoked Waco-style massacre, and believing the next stage of human evolution was achievable through suicide, the cult of Heaven's Gate willingly took their own lives with pudding/apple sauce mixed with phenobarbital.

    We explore the realities surrounding brainwashing, and the various pseudonyms taken on by everybody involved, and the fantastic range of names adopted by the church before settleing on Heaven's Gate (Anonymous Sexaholics Celibate Church; Human Individual Metamorphosis; Total Overcomers Anonymous).

    All this and more....

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    53 mins
  • How YOU Could Become a God

    How YOU Could Become a God
    Feb 26 2024

    Apotheosis is the process of becoming a god, and that gift isn't always limited to the dead.

    Some classic examples include Asclepius, Ariadne, and Glaucus.

    Apotheosis also appears in the Abrahamic tradition, in a varity of manifestations, including the Alawite tradition, which elevates Ali ibn Abi Talib to godhood. We examine the diference between Apotheosis and Theosis in the Christian tradition. Preston expounds on the exaltation promised in the Latter-day Saint tradition. 

    We look at the worship of mortals in cults of personality (Jim Jones, Amy Carlson, Joseph Kony, Nirmala Srivastava, and Alan John Miller), the god kings of the empires, and those who were deified posthumously by their followers (Buddha, Hitler, Washington, Pythagoras, Mother Mary, Saint Teresa of Calcutta), and even some who were involuntarily deified in their lifetimes (Raj Patel, Kumari, Prince Philip, as well as some of the old Apostles of Christ).

    There's also the wonder of Apocolocyntosis (divi) Claudi, or pumpkinification, the extravagant or absurdly uncritical glorification of a person.

    All this and more.... 

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    59 mins
  • How They Became Gods

    How They Became Gods
    Feb 12 2024

    Euhemerism is essentially the hypothesis that many of the gods who have been celebrated throughout history may not have been simple fabrications but real people around whom great myths developed and grew to legendary proportions. 

    Euhemerus was a fellow who entertained and educated with tales of how the old gods of Hellenic (Greek) tradition were originally humans, mortals who lived mundane or occasionally exciting lives, and died, forever to decay into nothingness, who would have been forgotten if they hadn't become objects of institutionl veneration. Most of his hypotheses have been forgotten, but the principle remains, and naturally leads to interesting speculation.

    Was Odin a real man, or an amalgamation of wisened wanderers? Were the Aesir (Asgardians) Asian kings, or Germanic immigrants to Scandinavia, rather than simple legendary personifications of the elements and national ideals?

    We also discuss why Christianity isn't a good fit for this discussion on Euhemerism, but that maybe the Abrahamic religious origin could be. All this and more.... 

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    48 mins
  • Sounds Suspicious

    Sounds Suspicious
    Jan 29 2024

    Ever wonder why we bother with the groundhog, or horseshoes, or four-leaf clovers? Have you noticed city employees relying on divining rods to find your water leak? Where do all these superstitions come from, and how do they manage to linger in our science-powered information age? All these questions have answers, and we've tracked them down for you.

    Crossing your fingers isn't just a simple thing to do to have luck on your side or negate the evil of a lie, it's a prayer of invocation in its simplest nonverbal form. 

    People also overvalue salt, and clovers, and iron horseshoes for superstitious pursuits of luck and/or safety. Wait until you find out how lucky the first owner of that rabbit-foot was....

    In 2017, after her parents had spotted some funny behavior, Sally LePage brought to the world's attention that the water companies of England were using dowsing rods to find leaks in underground water pipes. Twitter did its thing, and water-workers  were popping up all over the place to validate the old-timey superstition of divining rods.

    We also take a look at the history behind Groundhog Day, and the divination surrounding the hopes for spring.

    Ultimately, the most superstitious people are those who have very limited control over their lives and livelihoods; superstitions allow them to feel like something they do has a meaningful effect. 

    All this and more.... 

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    1 hr and 3 mins
  • The Legend of (Persian) Zoro

    The Legend of (Persian) Zoro
    Jan 15 2024

    Zarathustra is the mythical hero at the foundation of Mazdaism, and thus it is better known as Zoroastrianism. Because ancient sources disagree on when this camel herder lived, it's nearly impossible to prove that he ever did, though there must have been an original founder of this ancient Persian religious tradition, the man's true name is certainly lost to time.

    Some Christians (especially the Jesuits) like to claim that Zoro was a biblical character, though there are different opinions on which one.

    This episode's story time is "The Cypress of Kashmar."

    As we explore this ancient tradition, we map out the conflict betwen Asha and Druj (and Nasa), and the Amesha Spenta (archangels) that support the righteous Ahura Mazda. The Yasna is terribly important, so we talk about that, too. 

    Naturally, we have to discuss the ideas that were adopted by exilic Judaism, and that persisted and evolved with the rise of Christianity.

    All this and more.... 

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    42 mins