This time on Beyond the Bar, Abby continues her conversation with Jeremey and Michelle King, diving deeper into the convergence of psychology and theology that makes their ministry and their stories so unique and momentous. You can expect a practical, tactical discussion of:

- the science behind our stories

- big "T" and little "t" traumas

- how to use the "four C's"

More about the book Try Softer: https://aundikolber.com/trysofter/

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Check out Jeremey and Michelle's work at miseminary.com and liverestoried.com

Jeremey is the Lead Pastor at Shepherd of the Valley Church in Afton, MN as well as the President of The Master’s Institute Seminary in White Bear Lake, MN. He recently completed his doctorate writing his dissertation on Relational Discipleship: an Attachment Theory Approach to Creating Community Within the Church. In his career Jeremey has planted a church, helped launch two nonprofits, and been a barista. In his spare time, Jeremey loves to hunt, play guitar, and roast coffee.

Michelle is a Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist, who owns a solo practice called Live Restoried. She has been a partner with her husband Jeremey in ministry for 20 years. They have two teenagers, Gabriel & Neriyah.

Michelle’s therapy focus has been through an attachment lens and includes EFT (emotionally focused therapy for couples and individuals). She is currently finishing a certification in attachment-focused EMDR (eye movement desensitization reprocessing—a form of trauma therapy). For work or play she loves to travel, find fabulous food, explore delightful coffee shops and go on beautiful hikes.