My guest for Episode #534 of the Lean Blog Interviews Podcast is Dale Lucht, co-author of the new book Don't Repeat Our Mistakes: Nine Lessons for Leaders Championing Cultural Transformations.

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Dale has led Lean transformations in manufacturing, healthcare, and financial services, and he brings decades of leadership experience shaped by mentors such as George Koenigsaecker and the Shingijutsu consultants.

In our conversation, Dale reflects on what it takes for a senior leader to go beyond being a "sponsor" of Lean to becoming a true champion. He shares stories of learning by doing, coaching from mentors, and mistakes that became turning points. We talk about leadership habits such as visibility, simplicity, curiosity, and the shift from solving problems yourself to developing others as problem solvers. Dale also discusses how to sustain progress and avoid the common plateau many organizations hit after a few years of Lean practice.

Dale and his co-authors, Peter Barnett and Morgan Jones, wrote Don't Repeat Our Mistakes not just to highlight what works, but also to candidly share lessons learned when things didn't go as planned. With proceeds from the book supporting the Michael J. Fox Foundation, it's both a professional guide and a personal legacy project. Whether you're a senior executive, a Lean coach, or someone working to influence leadership in your organization, this episode o

Early Career & Lean Origins

• What's your Lean origin story, and how did you get started?
• What was it like learning from George Koenigsaecker and Shingijutsu?
• Can you share an example of the "homework" they gave you as a plant GM?
• How did those early lessons shape your leadership approach?

Leadership Lessons & Mistakes

• What mistakes or challenges did you experience that led to learning?
• Why do so many organizations plateau after a few years of Lean?
• What distinguishes improvement from true transformation?
• How can leaders practice self-coaching before coaching others?
• What shifts do leaders need to make--from solving problems themselves to coaching others?
• Why is curiosity such an essential leadership habit?

Cross-Industry Experience

• How did your transition from manufacturing into healthcare come about?
• Did you see the same progression from tools to leadership change in healthcare?
• How did you approach leading change in financial services?

The Book: Don't Repeat Our Mistakes

• What did you and your co-authors hope to capture in Don't Repeat Our Mistakes?
• How did the title and focus on mistakes come about?
• Were the leaders you interviewed open to sharing their own mistakes?

Practical Advice for Leaders

• How can someone move from being a Lean sponsor to being a true champion?
• How should leaders pick which habits or lessons to focus on first?
• What advice do you have for influencing senior leaders when coaching "up" isn't invited?
• How do organizations prevent backsliding when leadership changes?

This podcast is part of the #LeanCommunicators network.

In this bonus episode of Lean Blog Interviews, Mark Graban is joined by William Harvey, AME 2025 Workshop Chair (and 2026 Conference Chair), to preview the AME Annual Conference coming up in St. Louis, October 6–9, 2025.

✅ Why AME is for all continuous improvement leaders—not just manufacturing ✅ The 2025 conference theme: Gateway to the Future – AI and Beyond ✅ How AME is blending AI and people integration into learning and networking ✅ Four key workshop tracks, including coaching, TWI, AI, and process excellence ✅ Mark’s own Deming Red Bead Game & Process Behavior Charts workshop

Whether you’re in healthcare, services, or manufacturing, AME offers a unique chance to learn from practitioners, connect with peers, and gain new insights into operational and leadership excellence.

• Conference details

• Workshop registration

• Special discount code for Lean Blog listeners: NP-MARKG25

We hope to see you in St. Louis!

My guest for Episode #533 of the Lean Blog Interviews Podcast is Cheryl Jekiel, founder of the Lean Leadership Center and a longtime advocate for aligning continuous improvement with people-centered leadership.

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Cheryl is the author of Lean Human Resources, and her latest book, Let Go to Lead: Six Habits for Happier, More Independent Teams (with Less Stress and More Time for Yourself), offers a practical and deeply human approach to modern leadership. With a background in HR and operations, Cheryl has spent decades helping organizations shift from hierarchical control to empowering, team-driven excellence.

In this episode, Cheryl shares her "Lean origin story," which began with a broken-down Ford and a transformative experience at Sweetheart Cup, where she witnessed firsthand how Lean thinking and redefined leadership roles could enhance both performance and the quality of work life. We discuss the importance of clarity in leadership--why vague directives like "take ownership" or "be proactive" often fail without behavioral specificity--and how shifting from being the problem-solver to being the coach can help leaders reduce stress and build truly independent teams. Cheryl also highlights how many organizations discuss empowerment but lack the necessary structures or shared understanding to actually enable it.

"We keep saying 'empower people,' but most organizations haven't defined what that actually means."

We also explore topics like vulnerability in leadership, the power of peer support communities, and how concepts like motivational interviewing--borrowed from healthcare and addiction counseling--can help leaders foster meaningful behavior change. Cheryl makes a compelling case for leadership as a practiced skill, not a fixed trait, and she encourages organizations to treat leadership development as an ongoing discipline. Whether you're an executive, HR leader, or improvement coach, this conversation offers actionable insight into how leaders can truly "let go to lead."

• What's your Lean origin story, and how did it shape your thinking?
• How did your early experience at Sweetheart Cup influence your views on leadership and improvement?
• Did you start your career in HR, or was that a later shift?
• What led you to write Lean Human Resources and later start the Lean Leadership Center?
• What was the inspiration for your new book, Let Go to Lead?
• Are the six habits in your book rooted in traditional Lean leadership concepts, or do they expand on them?
• Why is clarity such a critical leadership skill, and why do so many leaders struggle with it?
• How do vague directives like "be proactive" or "take ownership" get in the way of effective leadership?
• What role does psychological safety play in helping teams ask clarifying questions?
• What's one of the habits you've found most overlooked or undervalued by leaders?
• Why is community and peer support so essential to leadership development?
• How do you help leaders embrace vulnerability in a culture that doesn't always reward it?
• What's the role of ongoing practice in leadership development, and why isn't it emphasized more?
• How does motivational interviewing relate to Lean leadership and coaching?
• How can leaders avoid the trap of trying to be "right" rather than being helpful?
• Why is "meeting people where they are" such a vital leadership practice?
• What advice would you give to leaders who want to let go of control without abdicating responsibility?
• What's the connection between letting go and reducing stress for leaders?
• Is there anything else you'd like to share about your book or your work?

This podcast is part of the #LeanCommunicators network.