My guest for Episode #539 of the Lean Blog Interviews Podcast is Darren Walsh, author of Making Lean and Continuous Improvement Work: A Leader’s Guide to Increasing Consistency and Getting Significantly More Done in Less Time.

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Darren is the Director and Leadership Coach at Making Lean Work Ltd and holds a master’s degree from the Lean Enterprise Research Centre at Cardiff University. He brings more than 25 years of experience helping leaders transform organizations in automotive, aerospace, medical devices, energy, and healthcare.

In this episode, Darren and Mark explore why so many Lean and continuous improvement programs fail to sustain—and how leaders can build the right systems and habits to make improvement last. Darren explains the three common pitfalls he’s seen across industries: choosing the wrong improvement approach, relying on traditional “solution thinking,” and lacking consistent leadership routines.

Darren also introduces his DAMI model—Define, Achieve, Maintain, Improve—as a way for organizations to avoid “kaizening chaos” and instead create a stable foundation for improvement. He shares stories from across sectors, including healthcare examples where better standards and daily management led to faster care, higher throughput, and dramatically lower mortality rates.

Mark and Darren discuss the difference between problem-solving and firefighting, the danger of “shiny Lean” initiatives that don’t address core issues, and the leadership routines that keep everyone aligned and focused on the right problems. The conversation offers a grounded reminder that Lean isn’t about tools or jargon—it’s about building consistency, clarity, and capability throughout the organization.

“You can’t kaizen chaos. First, you have to define and stabilize the standard.”

“If every team in your business is working on the right problem, that’s an incredibly powerful organization.”

• What’s your Lean origin story? How did you first get introduced to Lean and continuous improvement?
• You’ve worked across industries—from electronics to oil and gas. How do you overcome the “we’re different” resistance when applying Lean in new settings?
• Why do some organizations still associate Lean with cost-cutting instead of learning and improvement?
• What led you to write Making Lean and Continuous Improvement Work? What problems were you seeing again and again?
• Can you explain the three common pitfalls you describe in the book?
• What is the DAMI model—Define, Achieve, Maintain, Improve—and how can leaders use it effectively?
• How can organizations build a strong foundation for improvement before jumping into tools like 5S or Kaizen?
• What are the essential leadership routines for sustaining Lean and consistency?
• Why do so many teams fall into firefighting mode, and how can leaders break that habit?
• How can visual management and daily management systems help teams focus on the right problems?
• How do you balance working on small employee-driven Kaizen improvements versus larger, strategic problems?
• You’ve said, “You can’t Kaizen chaos.” What does that mean in practice?
• What lessons from the healthcare case study—cutting waiting times by 88%—stand out most to you?
• How can leaders ensure alignment and help every team work on the right things?
• What’s next for your work and research? What will your next book focus on?

This podcast is part of the #LeanCommunicators network.

My guest for Episode #538 of the Lean Blog Interviews Podcast is Nelson Repenning, Faculty Director of the MIT Leadership Center and co-creator of Dynamic Work Design.

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Nelson describes himself as an "organizational engineer," helping leaders redesign the routines and decisions that determine how work really gets done. He joins host Mark Graban to discuss his new book, There's Got to Be a Better Way: How to Deliver Results and Eliminate the Chaos of Modern Work, co-authored with Donald Kieffer.

In this conversation, Nelson shares insights drawn from his decades of experience studying system dynamics, Lean thinking, and organizational learning. He explains how leaders often fall into the "capability trap" -- spending their days firefighting immediate issues instead of improving the underlying system. From the arms race of hospital alarms to the collapse of fast-growing companies, he connects examples from healthcare, manufacturing, and technology to show why even good intentions can create destructive feedback loops if we don't understand the system.

Mark and Nelson also explore how Dynamic Work Design translates Lean principles like flow, visualization, and problem-solving into knowledge work. They discuss the five core principles -- including "Structure for Discovery" and "Connect the Human Chain" -- that help organizations make work visible, surface problems early, and evolve systems continuously. Listeners will learn how to move from firefighting to focus, and from chaos to sustainable improvement.

• How did you first get involved in the field of system dynamics at MIT?
• For those unfamiliar, what exactly is system dynamics -- and how does it apply to management and organizations?
• Why hasn't system dynamics had the impact on practice that it deserves?
• What lessons can we learn from the classic examples you've taught, like the Mississippi River levee arms race or the "People Express" airline simulation?
• How do those feedback loops and unintended consequences show up in today's industries, like healthcare or tech?
• What led you and Donald Kieffer to write There's Got to Be a Better Way? What core problems were you trying to address?
• Can you explain the "capability trap" and how firefighting keeps organizations from improving?
• Why is it so hard for people to commit to prevention and long-term improvement when firefighting feels more rewarding?
• How does Dynamic Work Design help leaders "structure for discovery" and surface problems earlier?
• What role does psychological safety play in making it safe to raise problems?
• How do you define "Dynamic Work Design," and what makes it different from traditional management systems?
• Why is it important for leaders to "go see the work" firsthand?
• Can you walk us through the five principles of Dynamic Work Design -- and how they connect to Lean?
• What does "Connect the Human Chain" mean, and why do so many organizations get communication wrong?
• Can you share an example where these principles led to measurable improvement -- such as the hospital case you mentioned?
• What can leaders learn from Toyota and other high-reliability organizations about making improvement continuous rather than episodic?
• How do leaders shift from reactive, one-off change programs to daily, ongoing learning?
• What message do you hope managers take away from There's Got to Be a Better Way?

This podcast is part of the #LeanCommunicators network.

In this special bonus episode of Lean Blog Interviews, Mark Graban is joined by C.J. Kaufman, Education Chair for the ASQ Cincinnati Section, to preview the ASQ Southwest Ohio 2025 Conference, themed “Excellence Through Quality.”

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Taking place Saturday, November 8, 2025, in Mason, Ohio, the event brings together quality professionals from the Cincinnati and Dayton regions for a half-day of engaging speakers, practical insights, and networking — plus an optional afternoon workshop with Mark.

C.J. shares how the conference was designed collaboratively by the Cincinnati and Dayton ASQ Sections, what attendees can expect, and why psychological safety is a cornerstone topic for today’s quality and Lean leaders.

• Event Overview: ASQ Southwest Ohio 2025 — a collaboration between Cincinnati and Dayton sections.
• Theme: Excellence Through Quality — exploring leadership, teamwork, and continuous improvement.
• Keynote: Mark Graban on Psychological Safety, Quality, and Continuous Improvement.
• Featured Speakers Include:
  • Deb Coviello — Leading Quality
  • Susan Marshall — FDA Perspectives on ROI in Quality Management
  • Colleen Soppelsa — Group Intelligence in Problem-Solving
• Optional Workshop: Hands-on Lean learning with Mark Graban in the afternoon session.
• Why It Matters: Quality and continuous improvement thrive when organizations foster safety, trust, and engagement.

“Psychological safety is essential for positive change — without it, continuous improvement can’t sustain.” — Mark Graban

“We want people to leave with practical things they can use Monday morning.” — C.J. Kaufman

“Excellence through quality isn’t just a theme — it’s how we build better systems and better workplaces.” — Mark Graban

• Location: Mason, Ohio
• Date: Saturday, November 8, 2025
• Time: 8:00 a.m. – 1:00 p.m. (Workshop to follow)
• Includes: Breakfast + Lunch
• More Info & Registration -- ASQ Cincinnati Section Website

• Mark Graban – Psychological Safety Resources
• Lean Blog Interviews Archive