My guest for Episode #538 of the Lean Blog Interviews Podcast is Nelson Repenning, Faculty Director of the MIT Leadership Center and co-creator of Dynamic Work Design.

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Nelson describes himself as an "organizational engineer," helping leaders redesign the routines and decisions that determine how work really gets done. He joins host Mark Graban to discuss his new book, There's Got to Be a Better Way: How to Deliver Results and Eliminate the Chaos of Modern Work, co-authored with Donald Kieffer.

In this conversation, Nelson shares insights drawn from his decades of experience studying system dynamics, Lean thinking, and organizational learning. He explains how leaders often fall into the "capability trap" -- spending their days firefighting immediate issues instead of improving the underlying system. From the arms race of hospital alarms to the collapse of fast-growing companies, he connects examples from healthcare, manufacturing, and technology to show why even good intentions can create destructive feedback loops if we don't understand the system.

Mark and Nelson also explore how Dynamic Work Design translates Lean principles like flow, visualization, and problem-solving into knowledge work. They discuss the five core principles -- including "Structure for Discovery" and "Connect the Human Chain" -- that help organizations make work visible, surface problems early, and evolve systems continuously. Listeners will learn how to move from firefighting to focus, and from chaos to sustainable improvement.

• How did you first get involved in the field of system dynamics at MIT?
• For those unfamiliar, what exactly is system dynamics -- and how does it apply to management and organizations?
• Why hasn't system dynamics had the impact on practice that it deserves?
• What lessons can we learn from the classic examples you've taught, like the Mississippi River levee arms race or the "People Express" airline simulation?
• How do those feedback loops and unintended consequences show up in today's industries, like healthcare or tech?
• What led you and Donald Kieffer to write There's Got to Be a Better Way? What core problems were you trying to address?
• Can you explain the "capability trap" and how firefighting keeps organizations from improving?
• Why is it so hard for people to commit to prevention and long-term improvement when firefighting feels more rewarding?
• How does Dynamic Work Design help leaders "structure for discovery" and surface problems earlier?
• What role does psychological safety play in making it safe to raise problems?
• How do you define "Dynamic Work Design," and what makes it different from traditional management systems?
• Why is it important for leaders to "go see the work" firsthand?
• Can you walk us through the five principles of Dynamic Work Design -- and how they connect to Lean?
• What does "Connect the Human Chain" mean, and why do so many organizations get communication wrong?
• Can you share an example where these principles led to measurable improvement -- such as the hospital case you mentioned?
• What can leaders learn from Toyota and other high-reliability organizations about making improvement continuous rather than episodic?
• How do leaders shift from reactive, one-off change programs to daily, ongoing learning?
• What message do you hope managers take away from There's Got to Be a Better Way?

This podcast is part of the #LeanCommunicators network.

In this special bonus episode of Lean Blog Interviews, Mark Graban is joined by C.J. Kaufman, Education Chair for the ASQ Cincinnati Section, to preview the ASQ Southwest Ohio 2025 Conference, themed “Excellence Through Quality.”

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Taking place Saturday, November 8, 2025, in Mason, Ohio, the event brings together quality professionals from the Cincinnati and Dayton regions for a half-day of engaging speakers, practical insights, and networking — plus an optional afternoon workshop with Mark.

C.J. shares how the conference was designed collaboratively by the Cincinnati and Dayton ASQ Sections, what attendees can expect, and why psychological safety is a cornerstone topic for today’s quality and Lean leaders.

• Event Overview: ASQ Southwest Ohio 2025 — a collaboration between Cincinnati and Dayton sections.
• Theme: Excellence Through Quality — exploring leadership, teamwork, and continuous improvement.
• Keynote: Mark Graban on Psychological Safety, Quality, and Continuous Improvement.
• Featured Speakers Include:
  • Deb Coviello — Leading Quality
  • Susan Marshall — FDA Perspectives on ROI in Quality Management
  • Colleen Soppelsa — Group Intelligence in Problem-Solving
• Optional Workshop: Hands-on Lean learning with Mark Graban in the afternoon session.
• Why It Matters: Quality and continuous improvement thrive when organizations foster safety, trust, and engagement.

“Psychological safety is essential for positive change — without it, continuous improvement can’t sustain.” — Mark Graban

“We want people to leave with practical things they can use Monday morning.” — C.J. Kaufman

“Excellence through quality isn’t just a theme — it’s how we build better systems and better workplaces.” — Mark Graban

• Location: Mason, Ohio
• Date: Saturday, November 8, 2025
• Time: 8:00 a.m. – 1:00 p.m. (Workshop to follow)
• Includes: Breakfast + Lunch
• More Info & Registration -- ASQ Cincinnati Section Website

• Mark Graban – Psychological Safety Resources
• Lean Blog Interviews Archive

My guests for Episode #537 of the Lean Blog Interviews Podcast are Caroline Greenlee and Chris Butterworth, two of the three co-authors (with Chris Warner) of the book Why Care: How Thriving Individuals Create Thriving Cultures of Continuous Improvement Within Organizations.

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In this conversation, we discuss their experiences and lessons on building cultures of continuous improvement that are rooted in respect, caring, and psychological safety.

Caroline brings rich experience as a Lean and continuous improvement coach, having partnered with organizations across different sectors to develop people and improve performance. Her background spans leadership development, organizational behavior, and a Master's degree in human resources management.

Chris is an award-winning author, international speaker, and a certified Shingo Institute Master-level facilitator and faculty fellow. He has more than 20 years of experience coaching executive teams and helping organizations embed sustainable improvement practices, always with a deep respect for people at the center.

In this episode, we explore topics such as:

• Practical approaches for leaders who want to build sustainable continuous improvement cultures.
• The origin story of Why Care and its message for leaders.
• Why caring cultures matter for both performance and people.
• Lessons from their Shingo Publication Award recognition.
• How psychological safety and respect for people underpin true Lean leadership.

• "Lean isn't just about tools or methods -- it's about people. If we don't care, we can't expect continuous improvement to last."
• "Respect for people means creating an environment where they feel safe, supported, and able to contribute. That's when real improvement happens."

• "Sustainable improvement starts with caring -- for people, for culture, and for the impact of our actions. Without that, Lean can't take root."
• "Psychological safety isn't soft; it's essential. It's what allows people to speak up, share problems, and drive meaningful change."