When the role that once fit like a second skin begins to suffocate, what do you do? For Duncan Robinson, it meant stepping away. No scandal. No collapse. Just honesty and courage to say, “I need to sit down and be fed.”

That decision took him from church staff to radio hosting, from the pulpit to row three, and eventually back into ministry with a new clarity.

Along the way, he discovered how to face failure without fear, how to detach identity from role, and why bi-vocational rhythms might be the healthiest way forward for pastors.

If you’re navigating transition - or helping someone who is - this conversation offers language and hope for what comes next.

Key Takeaways

• Identity is received in Christ, not earned by a role
• Failure roars like a lion but shrinks when faced
• Grace isn’t tidy - it meets you in real time
• Bi-vocational ministry mirrors the lives of congregants
• Pastoral skills translate beyond the pulpit
• Churches can pilot one day of outside work for healthier staff
• The wilderness is where God grows clarity and love

Chapter Markers

• 00:00 Welcome and setup
• 05:15 From Phoenix growth to Australian valley
• 08:30 Radio hosting and a father’s death
• 10:56 Untangling identity from role
• 15:45 A year of silence and being fed
• 21:05 What “pastor” really means
• 24:50 Transferable skills pastors overlook
• 29:20 Why bi-vocational makes sense
• 40:10 Real-time grace at the speed of Jesus
• 45:10 Closing

If you’re a pastor or ministry leader facing transition - or walking with someone who is - you don’t have to do it alone. Visit ministrytransitions.com to explore coaching, confidential conversations, and resources designed to help you protect people, preserve purpose, and plan what’s next with wisdom and grace.

To connect with Duncan Robinson, visit DuncanRobinson.net for links to his projects, speaking, and his book Full Phoenix Rising: Real-Time Grace at the Speed of Jesus - a raw and redemptive look at failure, faith, and finding your way back when everything falls apart. You can also find Full Phoenix Rising on Amazon, Target, Walmart, and other major retailers.

If this conversation encouraged you, share the episode with a friend who might need to hear that stepping out of ministry doesn’t mean stepping out of God’s calling - it might just mean walking it out differently.

Ministry employment isn’t just HR. It’s covenant community, stewardship, and public witness.

In this episode, attorney and former ministry leader John Melcon explains how churches and nonprofits can handle staff transitions without abandoning their values or ignoring real risks.

John shares his own sudden exit from a director role in Christian higher education and how that season led him to serve ministries as legal counsel.

He outlines why U.S. courts often take a hands-off approach to religious leadership disputes, what that means for pastors and boards, and how to prepare before conflict ever arises.

From “talk about your last day on your first day” to using Christian conciliation instead of civil court, this conversation offers a road map: clarity in writing, compassion in tone, and a process that keeps the mission central.

Key Takeaways

• Mission and values - not fear - should drive personnel policy and decisions.
• U.S. law generally avoids entangling courts in religious leadership disputes; plan accordingly.
• Written agreements can be precise and pastoral when drafted with mutual dignity in mind.
• Succession planning is discipleship: normalize timelines and transitions early.
• Consider mutual confidentiality/non-disparagement; avoid clauses that suppress lawful reporting.
• Use Christian conciliation for disputes when both parties voluntarily opt in.
• Involve counsel early - clarity at formation prevents costly confusion at separation.

Chapter Markers

• 00:00 — Welcome, the tension of boss and brother
• 02:54 — John’s ministry background and unexpected termination
• 08:55 — Discernment, law school, and a new calling
• 12:51 — “Lawyers aren’t the enemy” and the advisor model
• 16:07 — How religious liberty shapes ministry employment
• 23:43 — Loyalty, performance, and ending well
• 28:49 — Clarity at the start: contracts, bylaws, expectations
• 32:56 — Christian conciliation vs. civil court
• 37:36 — NDAs, confidentiality, and what’s wise now
• 41:43 — Culture signals: how we say goodbye

When ministry transitions go wrong, the fallout isn’t just legal - it’s spiritual. Ministry Transitions walks with pastors and ministry leaders through seasons of loss and change with clarity, care, and purpose. Start your next chapter at ministrytransitions.com.

And when wise legal counsel is needed, John Melcon brings both legal expertise and a ministry heart. Learn more about his work serving churches and nonprofits at taftlaw.com/people/john-terry-melcon/.

Quiet fatigue rarely announces itself. It hums under the surface until a crisis forces a decision.

In this conversation, Marine veteran and Forte co-founder Vineet Rajan reframes care for leaders as mental fitness - a proactive, daily practice that keeps pastors and nonprofit teams clear-headed, resilient, and ready.

We contrast mental fitness with therapy, name the everyday pressures leaders face, and offer accessible rhythms that fit real life.

You’ll hear why churches are becoming early adopters, how to reduce noise so you can notice what God is saying, and why outcomes - not just usage - should drive board decisions.

If you lead people, steward budgets, or carry a call that feels heavier than it used to, this episode gives you language, guardrails, and next steps to strengthen your team without adding shame or hype.

Key Takeaways

• Mental fitness is proactive training; therapy is reactive care for acute needs. Both matter.
• Leaders fight three constants: entropy, the enemy, and evil - training helps us endure them.
• Preventative care beats crisis management; reduce interior noise to increase signal.
• Ministries love the model because it separates staff care from supervisory entanglements.
• Outcomes matter: increased productivity and well-being translate to real ROI.
• Accessibility drives adoption: mobile scheduling, short sessions, and confidentiality.

Chapter Markers

• 00:00 Welcome and setup
• 01:00 Vineet’s backstory: immigrant kid to Marine officer
• 04:00 What is Forte and who they serve
• 05:45 Mental fitness vs mental health - clear differences
• 09:20 Preventative maintenance and the “office vent” analogy
• 11:45 The three E’s: entropy, enemy, evil
• 15:00 Why churches became early adopters
• 19:30 EAPs, engagement, and outcomes that matter
• 22:05 The secret sauce: accessibility and aspiration
• 25:40 From interrogation training to loving people well
• 29:00 Vision: organizations solving big problems, people known and whole
• 31:15 Next steps for leaders and teams
• 33:30 Closing and partnership

When leaders hit quiet fatigue, care starts with community. Ministry Transitions walks with pastors and ministry leaders through seasons of loss, burnout, and change - helping them rediscover clarity and calling. Visit ministrytransitions.com.

For mental fitness solutions, Forte serves both sides of the mission field. Explore getforte.com/faith for Christian organizations, businesses, and nonprofits, or getforte.com for teams in the broader marketplace looking to build resilience and clarity.