When a beloved role ends, identity gets loud.

In this candid conversation, Joshua Gordon traces his journey from ministry-adjacent entrepreneur to a surprising new assignment after his business collapsed in COVID. A trusted friend’s hard words, deep prayer, and patient community became “spiritual physio” that restored his sense of self in Christ.

We talk about the gap between intention and impact in church transitions, why being “driven” can hide quiet desperation, and how to hear God’s still small voice before things are literally on fire.

Josh shares the practical and pastoral moves that protected his marriage, his kids, and his future calling.

If you are a leader facing an ending, a board guiding one, or a pastor recovering from one, this episode offers language, wisdom, and hope. Faithfulness isn’t empire building. It’s walking with Jesus in ordinary choices that shape a lifetime.

• Intention without action creates collateral damage in transitions.
• “Driven” can be desperation in disguise; identity must relocate from role to Christ.
• God often speaks through memory, community, and quiet checks in the soul.
• Invite truth-telling friends. Love risks being misunderstood to protect you.
• Over-preparation can be control; trust requires limits on our need to manage outcomes.
• Measure success by faithfulness to Jesus and people, not by platform.
• Healthy endings open a window for deep heart work and future freedom.

• 00:00 Cold open, Canadians and calling
• 03:20 Intention vs impact in church transitions
• 07:30 PK expectations and disillusionment
• 10:20 Building a ministry-minded business
• 12:40 COVID collapse and costly layoffs
• 16:20 Untangling identity from role
• 18:45 A memory from God that exposed motive
• 28:55 “Physio” for the soul and daily trust
• 38:00 Friendship that told the hard truth
• 47:50 Closing one work, starting another
• 52:15 Learning to follow quiet discernment
• 59:30 Wealth redefined: family, faith, and freedom
• 1:04:15 Kingdom over empire, final blessing

If you’re facing a ministry transition - or helping someone through one - visit MinistryTransitions.com to find confidential guidance, resources, and hope for what’s next.

For more from Joshua Gordon and The Lead Pastor, visit here: https://theleadpastor.com/

When the New York Times ran with allegations surrounding Willow Creek’s founding pastor, Steve Carter had a choice: keep the machine running or protect the trust of the people in the room. He chose integrity - and walked away from the stage that had defined his career.

In this conversation, Steve names the real costs: the silence inside the institution, the “values higher than the chaos” that guided him, and the morning-after reality that there was no job, no safety net, and no way to control the narrative.

He talks about the anger he absorbed, the outside leaders who showed up, and the therapist’s hard question that kept him from repeating patterns.

But the story doesn’t end in exile. It moves through a real wilderness - grief, breathing, waiting - and into a humbler, healthier life: moving back to the Midwest, choosing place over platform, and becoming the lead pastor at Christ Church. What emerges is a field guide for anyone facing a crisis of integrity in Christian leadership.

• Integrity over institutional preservation: Trust is sacred; don’t trade it for optics.
• Name “values higher than the chaos”: Decide in advance what you won’t violate when pressure comes.
• Healing is not transferable: There’s first-hand wounding and first-hand healing; your family needs its own path.
• Interrogate attraction to unhealthy systems: Ask why certain leaders and cultures feel “safe.”
• Grief takes the time it takes: Practice a Holy Saturday rhythm - don’t rush from Friday to Sunday.
• Choose place over platform: Calling is often geographic and relational, not positional.
• Lead from scars, not spin: Wounds can become witness when truth is told and humility is practiced.

• 00:00 — Cold open: Why transitions are never just “staff changes”
• 04:53 — “These are my people”: the early joy at Willow
• 06:47 — Crisis emerges; what repentance would have required
• 09:14 — The headlines drop; “I won’t play with people’s trust”
• 11:52 — Who can you trust when the room is spinning?
• 17:22 — Six options, and why pastoring again wasn’t one of them
• 19:26 — Therapist’s jolt: “Why are you drawn to narcissists?”
• 22:16 — Outside support vs. inside backlash; the binder of messages
• 25:34 — Reframing the anger; learning what people were really saying
• 27:59 — Starbucks incident; a son’s question about “reward”
• 33:25 — Grieve, Breathe, Receive: the Holy Weekend framework
• 36:53 — Wilderness theology: disorientation to reorientation
• 39:36 — Reentry: discerning a safe, healthy church
• 41:33 — “Steve of Chicagoland”: called to a place, not a position
• 43:50 — Inner Hybels and inner Ortberg: action and formation
• 47:20 — Staying in touch; practicing faithfulness, not fame

If you’re walking through a ministry transition or facing hard decisions about leadership, you don’t have to do it alone. Visit MinistryTransitions.com to explore resources, donate to support a leader in the thick of change, or book a confidential call.

You can also learn more about Steve Carter’s ministry and resources through Christ Church of Oak Brook and by picking up his book Grieve, Breathe, Receive at stevecarter.org/book.

Many pastors find themselves at the end of their ministry career unable to retire - not because they lack calling, but because they lack financial security. Churches often avoid the money conversation, leaving leaders stuck in the pulpit longer than they should be.

In this episode, financial strategist Gabe Pelphrey opens the curtain on why retirement planning for ministry leaders so often gets ignored. He explains the unique challenges pastors face, the role boards must play, and the courageous conversations that make succession possible.

This isn’t just about money - it’s about stewardship, legacy, and ensuring both leaders and churches are prepared for what’s next.

Key Takeaways

• Why many pastors cannot financially afford to retire
• The board’s role in annual compensation and planning reviews
• How rabbi trusts and deferred compensation plans protect leaders and churches
• The danger of assuming “God will provide” without planning
• Why courageous conversations about money and succession matter
• How retrospective compensation studies address past underpayment
• Why planning early ensures dignity, security, and peace in transitions

Chapter Markers 00:00 – Welcome & Introductions 01:20 – The hidden financial crisis in pastoral transitions 03:45 – Who holds responsibility: pastor or board? 06:15 – When pastors retire into poverty 08:00 – Unique financial tools for churches (rabbi trusts, 403b9s) 10:13 – Stewardship and courageous conversations 13:27 – Strongholds around money in ministry 16:40 – Poverty mindset vs. extravagant misconceptions 20:06 – Retrospective compensation studies explained 22:53 – Gabe’s background and calling into this work 25:06 – How Stewarded serves churches and nonprofits 27:00 – Why Ministry Transitions + Stewarded work hand-in-hand 32:29 – Preview of joint webinar

Retirement should not punish calling. Visit stewarded.io to schedule a strategy session. Build a clear roadmap with your board using tools like 403(b)(9) plans, rabbi trusts, deferred compensation, and retrospective compensation studies so your pastor can finish with dignity and your church stays strong.

If succession or a financial crunch is on the horizon, do not walk it alone. Go to ministrytransitions.com to book a confidential call. We help pastors and boards craft integrity-first transition plans that protect people, steward resources, and prepare your church for what’s next.