What happens when the calling that once defined you no longer feels sustainable? When the work you love begins to cost you more than you can carry?

For many ministry leaders, the hardest battles are not theological. They are personal. Emotional. Quiet. And often fought alone.

In this episode, Matt Davis sits down with Don Ross, former pastor and founder of Manhood Tribes, to talk about why so many men struggle in silence, especially during seasons of ministry transition.

After two decades in large evangelical church leadership, Don stepped away - not because he stopped loving Jesus, but because the system was breaking him.

What followed was a difficult transition marked by uncertainty, financial pressure, and identity questions that many ministry leaders quietly face. This conversation pulls back the curtain on isolation, addiction, shame, and the deep need for brotherhood.

If you are navigating transition, questioning your direction, or responsible for leading others through change, this episode offers both clarity and hope.

No man should have to walk alone.

• Ministry leadership can be both deeply fulfilling and profoundly exhausting at the same time.
• Many church systems unintentionally isolate pastors rather than care for them.
• Churches often struggle to reach men because they build connection models that don’t align with how men bond.
• Pornography addiction thrives in isolation and shame, even among pastors.
• Bringing struggle into the light is the first step toward freedom.
• Transition seasons destabilize identity, especially around provision and purpose.
• Intentional, challenge-based brotherhood can anchor men during seasons of uncertainty.

00:00 – Introduction and framing the conversation about men 01:00 – Don’s ministry journey and transition 06:00 – The celebrity pastor model and systemic pressure 08:00 – Why churches struggle to reach men 16:00 – The five marks of manhood 19:00 – Pornography, shame, and isolation 24:00 – How tribes work differently than typical men’s groups 31:00 – Financial pressure and identity in transition 37:00 – Fulfillment after leaving vocational ministry

Ready to take your next step? Visit MinistryTransitions.com to book a confidential call about an upcoming transition, termination, or succession. Explore Don’s resources at ManhoodTribes.com and take the quiz at HowManlyAreYou.com. If this episode helped you, consider donating to support leaders navigating transition.

Is there really a difference between ministry and the marketplace? Or have we created a divide that Scripture never intended?

In this episode, Curt Swindoll shares insights from 40 years of leadership across nonprofit, church, and for-profit environments.

Having transitioned multiple times - sometimes with a plan, sometimes without - Curt challenges the assumption that ministry is something we leave behind.

Instead, he invites leaders to rethink their posture toward God, especially during seasons of uncertainty.

For leaders navigating burnout, succession, or vocational transition, this conversation reframes the journey.

The issue is not whether you are in ministry or business. The deeper issue is whether you are living for God or with Him.

And that distinction changes everything.

• There is no sacred-secular divide. God is as present in the marketplace as in the church.
• Burnout often reveals a “for God” posture that has replaced a “with God” relationship.
• Transitions are rarely clean; God’s presence is not dependent on clarity.
• Work is one of the primary places of spiritual formation.
• Discernment is not about finding one perfect path but learning to journey wisely with God.
• Succession is less about ending ministry and more about shifting where and how ministry happens.
• Peace and freedom are often the deeper invitation beneath vocational change.

00:00 – Is There Really Life After Ministry? 02:30 – Sacred vs. Secular: A False Divide 07:00 – Transitioning Without a Plan 10:00 – Life With God vs. Life For God 15:00 – Burnout and Identity in Ministry 21:00 – The Role of Spiritual Formation and Marriage 24:00 – Moving Between Ministry and Marketplace 29:00 – God at the Door in Seasons of Anxiety 33:00 – Lessons from a Lifetime of Ministry Transitions 43:00 – Succession, Discernment, and “Never Say Never” 50:00 – Practical Resources and Final Encouragement

If this conversation stirred something in you - whether you're navigating a leadership transition, discerning succession, or simply longing to experience more of a life with God - there are a few trusted next steps.

For confidential support and guidance through ministry transitions, visit https://ministrytransitions.com.

To explore spiritual formation resources and connect with trained spiritual directors, go to https://graftedlife.org.

And if you're leading an organization and want clarity, traction, and a healthier operating rhythm, learn more about EOS at https://www.eosworldwide.com or connect directly with Curt at https://www.eosworldwide.com/curt-swindoll. Wherever you are in your journey, you don’t have to walk it alone.

What if the biggest lie Christian leaders believe is that ministry only happens inside church walls?

When pastors and nonprofit leaders transition into the marketplace, many feel like they’ve stepped out of calling and into something lesser. But that assumption may be the very thing limiting the Church’s influence.

In this episode, we talk with Chuck Proudfit about faith at work, succession challenges, leadership continuity, and why Christians must rethink the sacred-secular divide.

This conversation reframes work as worship and challenges leaders to build legacy that outlives them.

• Work is not secular space. It is strategic deployment.
• The sacred-secular divide quietly undermines Christian leadership.
• Most succession failures begin long before the transition announcement.
• Boards must proactively ask leaders about their 10-year vision.
• Continuity requires infrastructure, not just inspiration.
• Community shapes faith at work more effectively than content alone.
• Leadership legacy must include both personal and organizational clarity.

00:00 – Introduction and Chuck’s faith journey 03:15 – Work as worship and the sacred-secular divide 06:44 – Faith in consulting and marketplace leadership 07:33 – Why church transitions struggle 10:13 – Organic ministry in the workplace 13:30 – The birth of At Work On Purpose 16:44 – Spiritual formation through work 19:05 – The Faith at Work Summit and future frontiers 20:43 – Continuity, succession, and leadership legacy 25:15 – Invitation to the Summit

If you are navigating a leadership transition, preparing for succession, or reimagining how faith integrates with your everyday work, take your next step today. Visit https://ministrytransitions.com to schedule a confidential conversation about your transition, explore how faith and work come together at https://atworkonpurpose.org/, and learn more about the global Faith at Work Summit at https://faithatworksummit2026.com/. Whether you are leaving vocational ministry, leading through change, or building what comes next, you do not have to do it alone.