On this week's #RefsPodcast, we roll through Games 4 and 5 of the Stanley Cup Final between the Edmonton Oilers and the Florida Panthers!

Game 4: Edmonton's Darnell Nurse has a kneeing major penalty downgraded to a two-minute minor... but was there embellishment on the play? And can we make a rule change that'll help the refs when there is? No penalty on a hit by the Panthers' Kyle Okposo on Leon Draisaitl - nor should there be. No penalty on an Anton Lundell hit on Edmonton's Cody Ceci - nor should there be. Florida's Aaron Ekblad delivered a hit from behind into the boards on the Oilers' Warren Foegele with no penalty called.... okay, on this one, there should've been a call.

Game 5: Florida's Sam Bennett gets away with charging on Dylan Holloway... and Bennett also gets away with clear goaltender interference on the Oilers' Stuart Skinner, who was clearly in the blue paint at the time of the collision -- not that it matters in this case. We'll explain why. Holloway and Matthew - not Keith - Tkachuk both go off on a hook and a dive, respectively. It looked like the right call at the time, but video evidence might give Tkachuk the benefit of the doubt here on a possible trip on the play. Watch the wobble. The Panthers' run 14-0-1 run - 5-0 in the playoffs - under referee Dan O'Rourke comes to an end.

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The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out.

Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He’s also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs.

Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls.

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