This is an episode from the podcast Untethering Shame with Kyira Wackett, who invited me to appear on her show.

Here is her overview of the episode:

In this episode, Dr. Rose Aslan and I discuss shame, fear, and Islamophobia. We explore how these forces perpetuate systems of oppression and uphold patriarchal structures of power.

We also discuss the importance of recognizing the humanity of individuals and the need to untether ourselves from shame. Dr. Aslan shares her personal journey of activism and using her voice to bring awareness to social justice issues alongside her experiences as a Muslim woman in academia and the challenges she faced in navigating different worlds.

She highlights the power of social media in giving voice to marginalized communities and the privilege that often accompanies academic credentials. Dr. Aslan shares her journey of leaving academia and focusing on supporting women in creating change in their lives.

She emphasizes the importance of self-care and finding balance in order to make a meaningful impact. The conversation also touches on the need for authentic activism and the role of marketing in perpetuating stereotypes and Islamophobia.

Takeaways

Shame, fear, and Islamophobia are interconnected and perpetuate systems of oppression.

Recognizing the humanity of individuals is crucial in dismantling these systems.

Using our voices and platforms to bring awareness to social justice issues is important.

Untethering ourselves from shame is necessary for personal and collective liberation. Social media has given marginalized communities a powerful platform to share their experiences and challenge dominant narratives.

Academic credentials often come with privilege and can grant individuals access to mainstream media platforms, even if they lack direct experience or understanding of the communities they speak about.

Finding balance and practicing self-care is essential for sustaining activism and making a meaningful impact.

Authentic activism requires going beyond performative actions and engaging in deep reflection and understanding of the issues at hand.

Marketing plays a significant role in perpetuating stereotypes and Islamophobia, and it is important to challenge and dismantle these narratives.

Creating space for marginalized voices and supporting women in their journeys of self-discovery and empowerment can have a ripple effect in creating positive change.

00:00 - Introduction and Welcome

01:01 - Dr. Rose Aslan's Journey and Dedication to Empowerment

06:05 - Navigating the Challenges of Life

08:37 - The Ebb and Flow of Life

33:21 - The Power of Social Media and Amplifying Marginalized Voices

34:12 - Navigating Different Worlds: Challenges in Academia

36:05 - Finding Balance and Practicing Self-Care in Activism

38:35 - Authentic Activism: Going Beyond Performative Actions

42:10 - The Role of Marketing in Perpetuating Stereotypes and Islamophobia

53:21 - Supporting Women in Creating Change: A Ripple Effect

Support the Show.

Find out more about Rose's work here: https://lnk.bio/dr.rose.aslan
Website: https://compassionflow.com

Support Rahma with Rose so I can keep producing more episodes here: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2197727/supporters/new

Music credits: Vocals: Zeynep Dilara Aslan; Ney/drum: Elif Önal; Tanbur: Katherine Hreib; Rebap: Hatice Gülbahar Hepsev

In this rich conversation, Dr. Sa’diyya Shaikh, Professor in the Study of Religions at the University of Cape Town, shares her personal journey of growing up as a Muslim in South Africa during the apartheid era and how this informs her study of Islam and worldview. With a profound interest in Sufism, Sa’diyya explores the intersection of spirituality, gender ethics, feminist theory, and social justice, illuminating how these realms influence each other.

As a scholar-activist, Sa’diyya brings humility from her spiritual practice and a unique approach to liberation theology, motivating her to fight for the oppressed. She delves into the spiritual legacy of Islam, emphasizing how Muslims can engage with the Divine through attributes. Sa’diyya rejects the gendered limitations of the Divine, suggesting that Muslims can cultivate both power (Jalali) and beauty (Jamali) within themselves. Her extensive work includes interpretations of Islamic texts, Islamic feminism, and the embodied ethics of contemporary Muslim women. Sa’diyya also shares insights on balancing emotional and spiritual health with family and work life demands.


Sa’diyya Shaikh specializes in the study of Islam, gender ethics, and feminist theory, with a special interest in Sufism. Her study of Islam began with an abiding interest in existential questions and a commitment to social justice – much of her work is animated by interest and curiosity about the relationship between the realms of the spiritual and the political. She has published on interpretations of the Qur’an, hadith, and Sufi texts; Islamic feminism; religions and gender-based violence; Sufism and Islamic Law; contemporary Muslim women’s embodied ethics; and marriage, sexuality, and reproductive choices amongst South African Muslim women.

Sa’diyya is the author of Sufi Narratives of Intimacy: Ibn ʿArabī, Gender, and Sexuality (2012) and co-author and editor of The Women’s Khutbah Book: Contemporary Sermons on Spirituality and Justice from Around the World (2022) In her current work on ethics and Sufism, as well as in her own spiritual life, Sa’diyya draws on the inspiration, transmission, writings and teachings of several contemporary Sufi teachers including Shaykh Muhammad Rahim Bawa Muhiyadin (rahmatullah alayhi), Shaykha Cemal Nur Sargut, Shaykh Fadhlalla Haeri and Shaykha Fawzia Al-Rawi.

Support the Show.

Find out more about Rose's work here: https://lnk.bio/dr.rose.aslan
Website: https://compassionflow.com

Support Rahma with Rose so I can keep producing more episodes here: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2197727/supporters/new

Music credits: Vocals: Zeynep Dilara Aslan; Ney/drum: Elif Önal; Tanbur: Katherine Hreib; Rebap: Hatice Gülbahar Hepsev

In this episode, I speak with a woman whose podcast has deeply inspired me and whose writings have made significant waves in anti-racism movements. I had the opportunity to fangirl a little with Layla F. Saad as we discussed her journey to becoming an anti-racist changemaker and activist.

Layla is known for addressing issues of racism and social justice, but this is her first time speaking publicly about her beliefs and identity as a Muslim woman. The ongoing genocides in Gaza, Sudan, and Congo have profoundly strengthened Layla’s connection to the Divine through the concept of justice grounded within the Islamic tradition.

Our conversation also covers a range of other topics, including how Layla’s recent diagnosis as neurodivergent has changed how she interacts with the world and enabled her to understand herself better. Layla also shares her perspective on the importance of experiencing collective trauma, grief, and rage as part of our shared humanity.

Layla Saad is a New York Times and Sunday Times bestselling author, speaker, teacher, and cultural worker. She is the author of the groundbreaking anti-racism book Me and White Supremacy and the host of the Become A Good Ancestor and Good Ancestor Podcasts.

Find Layla online here: https://www.instagram.com/laylafsaad/
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/becomeagoodancestor

Support the Show.

Find out more about Rose's work here: https://lnk.bio/dr.rose.aslan
Website: https://compassionflow.com

Support Rahma with Rose so I can keep producing more episodes here: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2197727/supporters/new

Music credits: Vocals: Zeynep Dilara Aslan; Ney/drum: Elif Önal; Tanbur: Katherine Hreib; Rebap: Hatice Gülbahar Hepsev