Today’s guests are Brian Wieser and Olivia Morley – not only the co-hosts of the fantastic ‘Agency Business’ podcast, but Brian is also a seasoned analyst across advertising, tech and finance, and Olivia is an editorial and communications specialist, formerly of Adweek and Forrester.

Together, they bring an unusually rigorous focus to the choices agency leaders make. We explore why the sector is not, despite the prevailing narrative, in crisis – and why metrics such as capital efficiency and long-term value creation are often overlooked.

Olivia offers a critical perspective on organisational structure, culture, and operational reality, while Brian unpacks how agencies should think about investment, scale and survival.

We also dig into whether independents are truly ‘having a moment, the divergence between media and creative businesses, and why holding companies are describing themselves as platforms.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[01:58] Inside agency journalism

[03:58] The business of agencies

[07:12] Curiosity behind decisions

[12:54] Investing wisely

[16:52] Facts over feelings

[21:22] Pseudo independence

[24:38] Media scale versus creativity

[26:53] Agencies as platforms

[31:04] Technology drives consolidation

[37:54] Specialisation as strategy

MORE ABOUT OLIVIA AND BRIAN:

LinkedIn (Olivia): linkedin.com/in/oliviamorley

Fusion Front Media: linkedin.com/company/fusionfront-media

LinkedIn (Brian): linkedin.com/in/brianwieser

Madison & Wall: madisonandwall.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

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Today’s guest is Luke McKelvey, Co-Founder and CEO of MIRIMAR – the creative company helping brands achieve cultural significance in a world where traditional advertising isn’t enough. And as of last week, ADWEEK’s newly minted small agency of the year for 2025.

Luke reflects on MIRIMAR’s early challenges, from launching ‘too soon’ in 2019 to navigating the pandemic. He also shares how conviction, focus, and a clear filtering system helped them find their footing with the right clients.

The conversation breaks down MIRIMAR’s ‘foundation and fame’ model – aligning brand and business, with smart talent partnerships that create impact without relying solely on paid media.

Packed with sharp thinking, honest lessons, and a healthy dose of optimism, this is a masterclass in building an agency you truly believe in.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:02] Navigating early challenges

[06:58] Ambition over status quo

[09:26] The power of clarity

[15:51] Foundation and fame

[17:58] Positioning as an entertainment agency

[26:17] New era of partnerships

[29:18] Aligning intent and incentives

[35:12] Doubling down on insight

[38:47] Why north stars matter

[41:21] Making work worth it

MORE ABOUT LUKE:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/luke-mckelvey

Website: mirimarus.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Today’s guest is Richard Huntington – former Chief Strategy Officer and Chairman of Saatchi & Saatchi. He brings a rare blend of honesty, affection and sharp-edged provocation to this conversation about the agency business.

Richard describes an industry that’s been commodified – caused by the “creative” agency label that stripped out the commerciality, as well as a pitching culture that trains agencies to give away their most valuable thinking for free.

But far from being downbeat, this is a rallying cry for the brilliance inside agencies, and a clear-eyed look at why talent deserves to be paid fairly for the value it creates. From productisation and pricing, to shifting C-suite perceptions, Richard shares his vision for a healthier, more sustainable industry built on confidence, credibility and genuine differentiation.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:20] Advertising’s not dead yet

[07:50] Commodified by clients

[09:02] Creative as an adjective

[17:15] Reclaiming agency swagger

[19:41] Collective industry reform

[21:56] Rewriting the rules of pitching

[24:58] The remuneration shift

[28:36] Power of proprietary thinking

[34:12] Golden era of startups

MORE ABOUT RICHARD:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/richard-huntington-59a3761b9

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Market of One

 If you are a fan of this podcast, then you'll love my new book Market of One, how Your Agency can rewrite the Rules and create a lasting competitive advantage. Sharing my experience, repositioning close to 150 agencies over the last decade. Key Highlights: - Insights from repositioning 150+ agencies - Expert contributions from industry leaders Greg Hahn, Rory Sutherland, and Nils Leonard - Strategies for deeper differentiation and increased profitability Learn how to stand out, win more business, and command premium rates. Don't miss this opportunity! Visit marketofone.agency now and unlock your agency's potential.

Diagnostic Questionnaire Landing Page

Today’s guest is Christy Hiler, owner of Cornett – the Lexington-based creative agency – and one of our industry’s leading voices for women-owned agencies.

A huge advocate of empowering talent, Christy candidly shares her own unusual journey from being Cornett’s president to its owner, including the convictions that guided her forward – and the doubts that held her back.

She talks about the importance of the ‘beautiful but deadly’ venus flytrap in describing what makes Cornett different, as well as her commitment to constant evolution.

Christy also describes how the striking stat that only 1% of US agencies are women-owned sparked the creation of ‘Own It’ – a vibrant community, podcast and summit supporting women who run agencies.

This is an inspiring story and taking charge and making a real difference to the wider industry.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[05:27] The underdog spirit

[09:38] The venus flytrap idea

[13:15] Building long-term relationships

[17:33] Women leading differently

[21:33] The 'Own It' initiative

[28:07] How equity fuels creativity

[32:07] Unlocking potential

[37:13] Doing things differently

MORE ABOUT CHRISTY:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/christyhiler

Website: teamcornett.com

OwnIt

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Today’s guest is Tyler Turnbull, Global CEO of Interpublic’s FCB – remarkably, the winner of Cannes Lions’ North American Network of the Year for seven years running.

Tyler shares the mindset that’s driven this sustained creative and commercial performance. He unpacks where resilience comes from, and how curiosity, experimentation and a willingness to challenge legacy thinking underpins FCB’s momentum.

Tyler also offers a refreshingly honest view of client relationships – including the crucial roles of empathy and deep commercial impact.

Regardless of whether you’re running a small team or a global network, this is a compelling recipe for ongoing success.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:15] The power of consistency

[07:27] Resilience through people

[10:10] Reinvention never stops

[14:31] Walking in your client's shoes

[22:28] Challenging old habits

[30:46] Why small steps matter

[31:40] Culture built on trying

[34:28] Being premium by choice

[42:16] Commercial experimentation

MORE ABOUT TYLER:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/tylerturnbull

Website: fcb.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Today’s guest is Zihla Salinas, CEO of a 40-year-old indie that rebranded as ‘Yes&’. She shares the story behind the name, including how the improv-inspired mindset of ‘accept and build’ has become a blueprint for the business.

This philosophy shapes everything from their M&A strategy and client partnerships, to leadership development and creative delivery. You’ll hear why figure-it-out-ability, curiosity and positivity are Yes&’s measurable values, not just words on a wall.

Zihla also unpacks how Yes& cracked the code for working with complex clients, and how great account service – not just great ideas – is often what makes the difference.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:25] The power of positivity

[07:00] The story behind Yes&

[11:04] What makes Yes& different

[16:10] Figure-Out-Ability

[19:30] Communication as a superpower

[21:33] Redefining client service

[23:12] Spotting positive mindsets

[28:42] Cultural alignment in clients

[34:46] Learning from success

[36:47] Smart cross-selling

[40:21] Building strong partnerships

MORE ABOUT ZIHLA:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/zihla

Website: yesandagency.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Market of One

 If you are a fan of this podcast, then you'll love my new book Market of One, how Your Agency can rewrite the Rules and create a lasting competitive advantage. Sharing my experience, repositioning close to 150 agencies over the last decade. Key Highlights: - Insights from repositioning 150+ agencies - Expert contributions from industry leaders Greg Hahn, Rory Sutherland, and Nils Leonard - Strategies for deeper differentiation and increased profitability Learn how to stand out, win more business, and command premium rates. Don't miss this opportunity! Visit marketofone.agency now and unlock your agency's potential.

Market Of One Landing Page

Today’s guest is Jarrod Moses, Founder and Global CEO of United Entertainment Group (UEG) – part of Edelman.

Jarrod unpacks how brands, creators, sports stars and celebrities meet in the fast-evolving world of culture and entertainment marketing. He reveals how UEG structures partnerships that go beyond timesheets and deliverables to also reward performance and behaviours.

Jarrod also discusses the shifting power balance between creators, agencies and clients, the pitfalls of inauthentic partnerships, and the discipline it takes to stay entrepreneurial while leading a global agency network.

From UEG’s early work with Rihanna to long-term lessons in leadership, this conversation offers an inspiring look at the mechanics of one of the world’s pre-eminent marketing disciplines.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:01] The role of emotion

[04:35] Enhancing culture

[07:46] Taming the celebrity–brand beast

[09:35] Three truths of partnership

[12:34] Game plans for every client

[17:43] Believable spontaneity

[22:20] What kills authenticity

[27:57] Discovering Rihanna with Jay-Z

[33:51] UEG’s commercial formula

[35:58] Engaging the C-suite

MORE ABOUT JARROD:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jarrod-moses

Website: uegworldwide.com/

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Market of One

 If you are a fan of this podcast, then you'll love my new book Market of One, how Your Agency can rewrite the Rules and create a lasting competitive advantage. Sharing my experience, repositioning close to 150 agencies over the last decade. Key Highlights: - Insights from repositioning 150+ agencies - Expert contributions from industry leaders Greg Hahn, Rory Sutherland, and Nils Leonard - Strategies for deeper differentiation and increased profitability Learn how to stand out, win more business, and command premium rates. Don't miss this opportunity! Visit marketofone.agency now and unlock your agency's potential.

Market Of One Landing Page

Today’s guest is Loren Grossman, Global Chief Strategy Officer of the ‘Solutions Group’ within Publicis Groupe – so he’s right at the centre of how the agency world is evolving.

Loren describes a ‘golden age’ of impact, explaining how Publicis has built a future-facing model that goes far beyond marketing communications. From bold acquisitions like Epsilon and Sapient, to their ‘Power of One’ approach that brings every capability together, he shares how the group has worked hard to make integration really work – and how that’s fuelled their relentless new-business success with the likes of Coke and Mars.

Packed with insights on leadership, culture and the real opportunities in AI and data, this conversation paints a truly optimistic picture of where agencies are headed and how to stay relevant in a rapidly changing market.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:31] Loren’s role

[07:44] Reinventing HoldCo.s

[09:26] How structure enables strategy

[13:19] Making bold acquisitions

[15:01] Integration made practical

[22:53] The ‘Power of One’ in action

[28:10] Partnership as a differentiator

[33:05] Avoiding the AI trap

[35:22] Building on CRM’s legacy

[39:18] The golden era of impact

MORE ABOUT LOREN:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/loren-grossman

Website: publicisgroupe.com/fr

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Site: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One