Today’s guest is Jenny Biggam, Owner of the7stars – and one of the most respected voices in independent media. With 20 years at the helm of the UK’s largest independent media agency, she offers a clear and compelling view of what it really means to stay independent in a market obsessed with scale.

She explains how only a purely fee-based model creates true neutrality, why transparency isn’t a slogan but a structural choice, and how partnership sits at the heart of everything the agency does. From working collaboratively with platforms and consultancies, to building creative capability inside a media agency, Jenny shares how the7stars has evolved while staying true to its beliefs.

The conversation also explores AI, career acceleration, client in-housing and the risks of agencies describing themselves as ‘platforms’. It’s an optimistic, grounded look at where media agencies are heading and why talent, culture and commercial clarity still matter most.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[03:33] What partnership really means

[08:03] The reality of proprietary media

[10:32] Platforms as partners

[14:00] Pitching against the giants

[19:22] Feedback over flip flopping

[25:16] A melting pot of skills

[27:20] AI in creative development

[29:51] The inverted pyramid shift

[33:45] Agencies as platforms explained

[36:45] Clients in-housing

[39:15] Talent drives renewal

MORE ABOUT JENNY:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jenny-biggam

Website: the7stars.co.uk

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Justin Billingsley, Co-Founder of Symbioniq and former CMO of Publicis Groupe. With his prior client-side career with the likes of Unilever, Coca-Cola and Nokia, Justin brings a rare – and often forthright – perspective on our industry.

He reflects on Publicis’ transformation and the criticism their ‘Power of One’ strategy received at the time, despite it now arguably inspiring their HoldCo. competitors. Justin describes navigating that change and why many of the decisions made back then are now proving decisive.

We also explore the growing divide between specialist agencies and one-stop shops. Justin explains why the real threat to agencies isn’t their competitors, but platforms, consultancies and clients increasingly building their own capabilities.

And of course, AI informs the whole conversation – not least how this new industrial revolution is disrupting certain areas of marketing over others, including market research, where Justin’s AI venture, Simbioniq, is rewriting the playbook.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:56] Lessons from Publicis

[07:58] Mystery creates margin

[11:38] End to end partners

[14:41] The observability problem

[18:43] Balancing specialisation

[21:16] Ideology as positioning

[25:26] The art of choosing

[26:08] AI and the iron triangle

[31:25] Doctor heal thyself

[39:15] Simulating people not data

MORE ABOUT JUSTIN:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/justinbillingsley

Website: simbioniq.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Ben Rudman, Executive Director at MSQ, one of the fastest growing, private equity backed marketing services groups, positioning itself between the traditional holding companies and independent agencies.

Ben shares why the agency model is at a pivotal moment, as AI accelerates the shift from selling time to selling outcomes, products and packaged services. He explains how MSQ has scaled to nearly 2,000 people while maintaining their entrepreneurial agility, and why client-centricity must be behavioural, not rhetorical.

The conversation explores the so-called Goldilocks zone between scale and flexibility, the realities of working with procurement, and why agencies must align commercial models to client goals from the outset, rather than retrofit them later.

With refreshing honesty, Ben reflects on what hasn’t yet been cracked, the talent challenges AI presents, and why creativity and ideas remain the industry’s enduring advantage.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:25] Scaling MSQ

[05:11] Revenue beyond headcount

[10:07] Uncertainty driving change

[13:33] Aligning to outcomes

[18:04] Commercial momentum model

[22:50] Client centricity by design

[25:51] Creating a Market of One

[31:33] Building the AI backbone

[33:57] Behaviour shapes culture

[39:00] Charging for ideas

MORE ABOUT BEN:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/benrudman

Website: msqpartners.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Zaid Al-Qassab, Global CEO of M+C Saatchi Group. Fascinatingly, having been client-side CMO with the likes of P&G, BT and Channel 4, this is his first agency role. So his rare perspective is gold dust.

Zaid explains why agencies must stop talking to themselves and start truly understanding the complexity faced by modern CMOs – not least how the old brief-led model is being replaced by the need for orchestration.

He shares how M+C Saatchi has repositioned itself around ‘Cultural Power’ and why that can – and should – be measurable. The conversation also explores AI, productisation and why agency leaders must make a stronger case for embracing a changing market.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[03:00] Agency navel gazing

[06:28] Treating agencies as partners

[07:47] Searching for a new model

[11:14] Flexible orchestration

[14:08] A former CMO’s advantage

[17:32] The Goldilocks zone

[22:22] Cultural Power as a proposition

[30:35] AI as a democratizer

[36:01] AI and the future of work

[38:06] Three things that matter

MORE ABOUT ZAID:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/zaid-al-qassab

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today's guest is Craig Elimeliah, Chief Creative Officer at Code and Theory, sharing his passion for why technology and creativity must go hand in hand.

In his view, clients have been carrying the burden of fragmentation for far too long. That’s why his role blends engineering, strategy and craft to help clients navigate modern complexity.

The discussion also explores Stagwell’s orchestration platform, The Machine, and how it’s reshaping integration across the marketing lifecycle. And perhaps most provocatively, Craig challenges our industry’s obsession with scale. If bigger isn’t always better, then agility and systems thinking matter far more.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:29] Inseparable disciplines

[04:28] Thinking like architects

[07:35] Creativity as change

[17:25] AI as creative accelerator

[22:59] Platformisation of holdcos

[26:14] Evolving business models

[30:13] Agentic operating systems

[36:05] Knowing what to automate

[42:31] Mediocrity scales exponentially

MORE ABOUT CRAIG:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/craigelimeliah

Website: codeandtheory.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s episode features Sean McDonald, Global CSO and Partner at Rethink, exploring the power of belief.

Sean’s built a reputation for candour, competitive ambition and an unwavering belief in setting the standard. But he hasn’t always led that way. He reflects on how letting go of the need to ‘win’ every meeting transformed his leadership and why discovering the answer matters more than having it.

Following his journey from politics and public affairs into advertising, Sean unpacks the myth of the ‘all-knowing’ strategist, explains why strong opinions must be loosely held and shares how envy can raise standards.

The conversation also looks ahead, exploring growth, independence and why agencies must commit to what they optimise for.

HIGHLIGHTS

[02:10] Bluntness with manners

[06:22] Discovering over knowing

[12:08] Cult of the hero

[15:38] Competition and respect

[20:32] Setting global standard

[24:51] Have an opinion

[29:00] The goal isn't growth

[31:18] Making bets

[33:21] Growth versus ‘good’

[38:00] Embracing the future

MORE ABOUT SEAN:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/seanamcdonald

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Christine Olivas – Practice Director, Advertising & Brand Marketing at Toptal, the world's largest, fully remote workforce.

Christine describes how on-demand talent has evolved from a stop-gap to a strategic growth lever for modern agencies, enabling them to build flexible teams that respond faster, protect margins and deliver stronger work.

Drawing on her experience scaling on-demand teams globally, she unpacks how moving beyond rigid resourcing helps agencies handle new-business surges, access specialist expertise and reduce pressure on core teams.

With an optimistic view of the future, Christine reflects on evolving workforce values, new career paths, and building agencies that are more human, resilient and fit for what comes next.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:33] A shifting workforce

[05:03] Dynamic demand for talent

[09:12] Moving beyond the stopgap

[13:10] CMOs want chemistry

[15:58] Support without spotlight

[20:03] New business influx

[24:29] Flexible pricing

[29:01] Freelance is evolving

[32:51] Portfolios open doors

[36:54] Great ideas come anywhere

MORE ABOUT CHRISTINE:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/colivas

Forbes CMO research

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Jared Belsky, Co-Founder and CEO of Acadia – the hugely successful digital marketing and analytics agency. This is a masterclass in optimism, principled leadership and long-term thinking.

Jared shares why bravery and belief sit at the heart of great leadership, from taking outspoken ethical stances, to building an agency designed to nurture future CEOs.

We explore how Acadia has deliberately moved away from the boom-and-bust model that afflicts so many agencies, instead embracing more sustainable economics and intelligent specialization that doesn’t rely on a single vertical sector.

Jared also offers a refreshingly positive view of the next generation, arguing they’re the most empowered yet, particularly when genuinely supported with thoughtful use of AI and automation.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:09] Where Acadia came from

[04:41] Integrity in media buying

[08:51] Stay profitable while doing good

[11:50] Agencies as teaching platforms

[17:29] Embracing economic diversity

[21:12] The mid-market thesis

[23:01] Saying "No" to P&G

[27:37] Living the values

[30:31] Empowering the team with technology

[33:23] Three trends reshaping media

MORE ABOUT JARED:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jaredbelsky

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq