Today’s guest is Zaid Al-Qassab, Global CEO of M+C Saatchi Group. Fascinatingly, having been client-side CMO with the likes of P&G, BT and Channel 4, this is his first agency role. So his rare perspective is gold dust.

Zaid explains why agencies must stop talking to themselves and start truly understanding the complexity faced by modern CMOs – not least how the old brief-led model is being replaced by the need for orchestration.

He shares how M+C Saatchi has repositioned itself around ‘Cultural Power’ and why that can – and should – be measurable. The conversation also explores AI, productisation and why agency leaders must make a stronger case for embracing a changing market.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[03:00] Agency navel gazing

[06:28] Treating agencies as partners

[07:47] Searching for a new model

[11:14] Flexible orchestration

[14:08] A former CMO’s advantage

[17:32] The Goldilocks zone

[22:22] Cultural Power as a proposition

[30:35] AI as a democratizer

[36:01] AI and the future of work

[38:06] Three things that matter

MORE ABOUT ZAID:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/zaid-al-qassab

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today's guest is Craig Elimeliah, Chief Creative Officer at Code and Theory, sharing his passion for why technology and creativity must go hand in hand.

In his view, clients have been carrying the burden of fragmentation for far too long. That’s why his role blends engineering, strategy and craft to help clients navigate modern complexity.

The discussion also explores Stagwell’s orchestration platform, The Machine, and how it’s reshaping integration across the marketing lifecycle. And perhaps most provocatively, Craig challenges our industry’s obsession with scale. If bigger isn’t always better, then agility and systems thinking matter far more.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:29] Inseparable disciplines

[04:28] Thinking like architects

[07:35] Creativity as change

[17:25] AI as creative accelerator

[22:59] Platformisation of holdcos

[26:14] Evolving business models

[30:13] Agentic operating systems

[36:05] Knowing what to automate

[42:31] Mediocrity scales exponentially

MORE ABOUT CRAIG:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/craigelimeliah

Website: codeandtheory.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s episode features Sean McDonald, Global CSO and Partner at Rethink, exploring the power of belief.

Sean’s built a reputation for candour, competitive ambition and an unwavering belief in setting the standard. But he hasn’t always led that way. He reflects on how letting go of the need to ‘win’ every meeting transformed his leadership and why discovering the answer matters more than having it.

Following his journey from politics and public affairs into advertising, Sean unpacks the myth of the ‘all-knowing’ strategist, explains why strong opinions must be loosely held and shares how envy can raise standards.

The conversation also looks ahead, exploring growth, independence and why agencies must commit to what they optimise for.

HIGHLIGHTS

[02:10] Bluntness with manners

[06:22] Discovering over knowing

[12:08] Cult of the hero

[15:38] Competition and respect

[20:32] Setting global standard

[24:51] Have an opinion

[29:00] The goal isn't growth

[31:18] Making bets

[33:21] Growth versus ‘good’

[38:00] Embracing the future

MORE ABOUT SEAN:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/seanamcdonald

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Christine Olivas – Practice Director, Advertising & Brand Marketing at Toptal, the world's largest, fully remote workforce.

Christine describes how on-demand talent has evolved from a stop-gap to a strategic growth lever for modern agencies, enabling them to build flexible teams that respond faster, protect margins and deliver stronger work.

Drawing on her experience scaling on-demand teams globally, she unpacks how moving beyond rigid resourcing helps agencies handle new-business surges, access specialist expertise and reduce pressure on core teams.

With an optimistic view of the future, Christine reflects on evolving workforce values, new career paths, and building agencies that are more human, resilient and fit for what comes next.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:33] A shifting workforce

[05:03] Dynamic demand for talent

[09:12] Moving beyond the stopgap

[13:10] CMOs want chemistry

[15:58] Support without spotlight

[20:03] New business influx

[24:29] Flexible pricing

[29:01] Freelance is evolving

[32:51] Portfolios open doors

[36:54] Great ideas come anywhere

MORE ABOUT CHRISTINE:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/colivas

Forbes CMO research

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Jared Belsky, Co-Founder and CEO of Acadia – the hugely successful digital marketing and analytics agency. This is a masterclass in optimism, principled leadership and long-term thinking.

Jared shares why bravery and belief sit at the heart of great leadership, from taking outspoken ethical stances, to building an agency designed to nurture future CEOs.

We explore how Acadia has deliberately moved away from the boom-and-bust model that afflicts so many agencies, instead embracing more sustainable economics and intelligent specialization that doesn’t rely on a single vertical sector.

Jared also offers a refreshingly positive view of the next generation, arguing they’re the most empowered yet, particularly when genuinely supported with thoughtful use of AI and automation.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:09] Where Acadia came from

[04:41] Integrity in media buying

[08:51] Stay profitable while doing good

[11:50] Agencies as teaching platforms

[17:29] Embracing economic diversity

[21:12] The mid-market thesis

[23:01] Saying "No" to P&G

[27:37] Living the values

[30:31] Empowering the team with technology

[33:23] Three trends reshaping media

MORE ABOUT JARED:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jaredbelsky

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Beth Ann Kaminkow is CEO of Dentsu North America. She brings a rare candour about why so many agency groups struggle to articulate their strengths, and why Dentsu is choosing to double down on strong, clearly positioned brands rather than chasing endless consolidation.

She shares her perspective on where independents are winning, why speed and specialisation matter more than ever, and how global networks leverage their scale advantage.

Thoughtful, optimistic and grounded in real leadership experience, Beth Ann also cuts through the hype on AI, from its impact on creativity and craft, to increasing appetite from clients for new pricing models.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[03:06] How technology amplifies longevity

[03:56] Restoring growth

[08:18] The ‘One Dentsu’ model

[12:24] Client-led media strategy

[19:08] AI as media channel

[22:22] Pricing unique IP

[24:06] The needs that indies meet

[28:24] Staying focused amidst gossip

[31:55] How cynicism hurts the industry

[35:44] The next wave of creativity

MORE ABOUT BETH:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/beth-ann-kaminkow

Mentioned in the episode:

Robin’s book – Market of One: amazon.com/Market-One-rewrite-competitive-advantage

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Zoe Scaman, founder of Bodacious – and one of our industry's most original and outspoken thinkers. She’s built her career by following her curiosity, from her early days at Naked Communications to optimising her own business around freedom and variety.

Zoe shares her take on why the traditional agency model has reached breaking point, how creativity is being squeezed by efficiency, and what a new era of talent could look like. She also speaks about building her personal brand, using writing as a thinking tool, and the importance of openness, vulnerability and speaking out.

If you’re questioning what’s next for agencies – or yourself – Zoe offers both a reality check and a dose of inspiration.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:03] Freedom to be 'Bodacious'

[04:24] The magic of misfits

[08:35] Death by a thousand cuts

[13:11] Data versus creativity

[15:07] Freedom versus growth

[21:44] The grey soup crisis

[25:30] Breaking silence with courage

[27:56] Thinking out loud in public

[33:59] Learning through disagreement

[37:54] Branding by machines

MORE ABOUT ZOE:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/zoescaman

Website: bodacious.be

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guests are PJ Pereira and Andrew O’Dell, co-founders of renowned creative agency Pereira O’Dell as well as their AI venture SILVERSIDE– fresh from delivering Coca-Cola’s fully AI-generated 2026 Holidays Are Coming campaign.

Alongside the controversy and lessons learned, PJ and Andrew explain why SILVERSIDE was spun-out as a separate business, how speed and experimentation are reshaping creative processes, and why culture is everything when navigating change.

They also explore how AI is accelerating pressure on traditional agency business models – from production workflows to how value is priced and rewarded. This is an honest, optimistic conversation about fear, reinvention and leadership in a moment of rapid transformation.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:13] Reinventing an icon

[07:57] From creative indie to AI Lab

[15:48] Resilience in the echo chamber

[17:18] Finding the hand raisers

[23:45] Rethinking creative value

[26:00] Exposing broken models

[30:31] Learning by doing

[33:14] People-first mentality

[36:01] The gap between indies and network agencies

MORE ABOUT PJ PEREIRA AND ANDREW O'DELL:

LinkedIn (PJ): linkedin.com/in/pjpereira

LinkedIn (Andrew): linkedin.com/in/andrew-o-dell

SILVERSIDE AI: Silverside.ai

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One