Sally Branson doesn't believe in balance when you have young kids, and as I write and record this at 8pm on a Monday night ahead of inevitable overnight feeds, before a day of having both kids tomorrow, and making sure I pump enough to get to the city for paid work the following day while my husband has our five month old while he tries to get as much work done as he can, I can't help but think that she might be right.

She's worked as the Press Secretary to the PM, she's run a political party and she's held high diplomatic positions with the US. And in continuing the theme of taking on big roles, she had her two boys in quick succession, too. In her own words, she's one of the older school mums, and for a long time, she wasn't sure that motherhood would be her reality, even though she always ached for it.

Here, we talk the new and different pressures that mums face today, the conversations we should actually be having about the reality of motherhood, and why whatever works for you is okay.

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This podcast was recorded on the lands of the Boon Wurong people of the Kulin Nation. The land on which we're lucky enough to raise our sons and daughters always was and always will be Aboriginal land.

We Pay The Rent and you can too here.