Is chalky soil really the secret to great English wine—or just clever marketing? What makes it so difficult for English wine to break into the North American market? Is it time for a classified system of English wine?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Henry Jeffreys, author of the award-winning book Vines in a Cold Climate.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Three of you are going to win a copy of his terrific book, Vines in a Cold Climate. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at natalie@nataliemaclean.com and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

How did Henry become a wine critic for The Lady, a women's magazine?

What was it light to interview wine pioneer Stuart Moss?

How did Henry’s skepticism about biodynamics nearly cause a problem with Gérard Bertrand?

What inspired Henry to write Empire of Booze?

What was the most surprising thing Henry learned while researching the book?

How did Henry’s first experience of English wine go?

What unusual vineyard experience totally changed his perception?

How much wine does England produce?

Where are the main wine regions in England?

Are the benefits of the chalky soils in certain parts of England overrated?

Is it time for a classified system of English wine?

Key Takeaways

We always hear about the chalk or the White Cliffs of Dover. Do you think that has an influence or is it overrated? Henry thinks it is overrated and it was the story that sold. It was a good marketing angle, and they thought that it was the best place. He thinks almost everything else is more important than whether it's chalk or clay, and once you've got everything else right, then you can argue about that.

Henry observes that selling to Canada and the US is quite complicated. If you sell to Japan, you can get just one person to import it. Whereas in North America you have complicated systems by state and province. You need somebody on the ground selling. Plus, Nova Scotia makes a similar style of sparkling wines. California has some pretty good sparkling wines. And then once the English bubblies land in the market, the price is pretty much the same as Champagne. Why would you unless you wanted something quite unusual, right?

Henry says that there is now a PDO, or Protected Designation of Origin, a European geographical indication for one county, which is Sussex. But it's really too early for it, because they've only been making quality wine there for 30 years. The appellation contrôlée is, ideally, codifying hundreds of years of tradition. Plus, a lot of producers buy from different counties. So Nyetimber will have vineyards in Kent and Sussex and Hampshire. So that makes a nonsense of it. And also, there's sort of bits of Sussex that are very much like Kent, so you so there's no point drawing a line where the old county barrier is. It's like, it'd be like, sort of cutting the Médoc in half. It doesn't really make any sense. I think the only place where it makes sense is Essex, because you've got the soil.

About Henry Jeffreys

Henry Jeffreys worked in the wine trade and publishing before becoming a writer. He’s a contributor to Good Food, The Guardian, Harpers Wine & Spirit, and The Spectator, wine columnist for The Critic magazine, and has appeared on radio, TV, and The Rest is History podcast. He won Fortnum & Mason Drink Writer of the Year in 2022 and is the author of four books, including Empire of Booze and Vines in a Cold Climate, which was shortlisted for the James Beard awards and won Fortnum & Mason drink book of the year. Along with Tom Parker Bowles, he hosts the Intoxicating History podcast. He lives in Faversham, Kent, with his wife and two daughters.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/334.

How can a vineyard disaster become an unexpected opportunity to innovate? How does storytelling transform wine marketing? What innovative pairings go beyond red wine and red meat?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Sally Evans, author of the new memoir, Make The Midlife Move: A Practical Guide to Flourish after Fifty.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Three of you are going to win a copy of her terrific new memoir, Make The Midlife Move: A Practical Guide to Flourish after Fifty. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at natalie@nataliemaclean.com and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

Are you ever too old to start over?

How do we build resilience as we get older?

How did Sally’s harsh initiation with the 2017 frost in Bordeaux shape her approach to winemaking?

Why did Sally decide not to pursue organic certification?

How did it feel to present Sally’s first wine in 2018 at Bordeaux's En Primeur?

Which aspects of the story does Sally hope critics understand beyond what's in the glass?

Beyond scores and medals, what forms of recognition have been most meaningful to Sally as a winemaker?

What was it like to be sworn into the Confrérie des Gentilshommes de Fronsac?

What was the steepest learning curve in selling a physical product like wine?

How has Sally found creative ways to market and sell Château George 7?

Why should you incorporate storytelling in marketing wine?

How did Sally pivot to minimize the negative impact of COVID on the winery?

What are some unusual pairings between vegetarian dishes and red wines?

How do you know when it's time to move on from something you've built?

What goals would Sally like to accomplish before selling the winery?

Key Takeaways

As Sally shares, she was still living in the southeast of France when the previous owner of her vineyard rang to tell her that the frost had destroyed everything. While now we have barrel rooms and we have thermoregulation, we made a decent wine and that proved the process. That was a good example of how in midlife we can look at something that looks really bad, something that's happened, and actually turn around and make something good out of it.

Sally says that when she hosts wine tastings, she always talks about the occasions when they're going to drink the wine: I think there's one thing in marketing where you profile the customer but I think with wine, often it's around the occasion and what you're eating and who's over and so on. That's how we drink wine. We drink it for occasions.

Sally observes that when we look at the back of most red wine bottles, especially from Bordeaux, it says drink with red meat: I thought, well, that's not really helpful. I have a very close friend, Wendy Narby, she and I sat down and said, red wine goes fabulously with veggie dishes and so we've done it as a passion project where we talk about how to pair plant-based food with different Bordeaux wines.

About Sally Evans

After an international corporate career based in Paris and the South of France, Sally Evans completely changed her life in her fifties. She created an independent winery in Bordeaux, completely on her own with no prior experience or knowledge of wine. She threw herself into wine studies, bought a parcel of mature vines with some dilapidated buildings and created a brand-new wine chateau. She now has a boutique winery, Château George 7, in Fronsac on the right bank of Bordeaux. Her wines win high critical acclaim from leading wine critics and publications and are listed in Michelin-starred restaurants and top venues across Europe and the US. Sally has also created a wine tourism destination for tastings and events, winning accolades for its exceptional wine experience. Alongside wine, her other passion is supporting women to follow their dreams.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/333.

What’s one of the most challenging aspects of being a new winemaker in Bordeaux, especially if you’re a middle-aged foreigner who is making wine for the first time? How did the Bordeaux sub-region of Fronsac lose its fame after being a region favoured by French royalty? What if the only thing holding you back from a fresh start, a new project or a major life change is you?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Sally Evans, author of the new memoir, Make The Midlife Move: A Practical Guide to Flourish after Fifty.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Three of you are going to win a copy of her terrific new memoir, Make The Midlife Move: A Practical Guide to Flourish after Fifty. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at natalie@nataliemaclean.com and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

Which pivotal moment sparked Sally’s interest in learning more about wine?

What was Sally’s career before wine?

Why did she decide to transition into a wine career at 52?

How is Make The Midlife Move different from other books of the genre?

What was the most surprising insight Sally discovered while writing her book?

What was the most challenging part of writing Make The Midlife Move?

Where is Bordeaux, and specifically Fronsac, geographically located?

Why has Fronsac often been overlooked in favour of more well-known regions?

What made Sally choose Fronsac when deciding to start winemaking?

What’s the story behind Sally’s winery’s name, Château George 7?

How did Sally overcome the issue of magnum bottles with no capsules to fit?

What was Sally’s most humbling moment in her winemaking career?

Which unexpected challenges does Sally wish someone had warned her about in the early days?

Why did Sally decide to expand into making white wine?

What can you do to manage feelings of impostor syndrome?

Key Takeaways

What’s one of the most challenging aspects of being a new winemaker in Bordeaux, especially if you’re a middle-aged foreigner who is making wine for the first time?

Sally notes that she didn’t realize just how much bureaucracy there was in France with the customs system and appellation rules around winemaking. There's a lot of rules which are good, but, there were so many rules. She also didn't really think through how long it takes to make a wine. So it's quite a long time that you're financing everything before you can actually start earning money.

How did the Bordeaux sub-region of Fronsac lose its fame after being a region favoured by French royalty?

Fronsac had the first wines that were produced and went up to the Royal Court of Versailles, but as time went by, areas like Saint-Émilion overtook Fronsac in terms of notoriety. When the climate was a little bit cooler as well, some of the wines tended to be a little bit more rustic, maybe not quite as ripe or as elegant as they could be.

About Sally Evans

After an international corporate career based in Paris and the South of France, Sally Evans completely changed her life in her fifties. She created an independent winery in Bordeaux, completely on her own with no prior experience or knowledge of wine. She threw herself into wine studies, bought a parcel of mature vines with some dilapidated buildings and created a brand-new wine chateau. She now has a boutique winery, Château George 7, in Fronsac on the right bank of Bordeaux. Her wines win high critical acclaim from leading wine critics and publications and are listed in Michelin-starred restaurants and top venues across Europe and the US. Sally has also created a wine tourism destination for tastings and events, winning accolades for its exceptional wine experience. Alongside wine, her other passion is supporting women to follow their dreams.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/332.