How did Rosé get a bad reputation as not being a “real” wine? How did Marcel Ott revolutionize the world of Rosé wine? Why is Grenache a popular grape for making trendy pale Rosés? How do Rosé’s beautiful bottles both help and hurt its reputation?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Rasmus Emborg and Jens Honoré, the author and photographer, respectively, who have published Rosé Revolution.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Highlights

How did Jens and Rasmus develop a love for Rosé?

What does Rasmus find most satisfying about owning a vineyard?

Why did Jens and Rasmus want to produce their book independently?

Why did Jens choose to photograph the winemakers in black and white, using an analog camera?

What was the most challenging aspect of writing Rosé Revolution?

Why was Marcel Ott’s pioneering decision to treat Rosé as a wine in its own right so radical in 1912?

Why did Rosé have such a bad reputation?

What makes Grenache such a good grape to make Rosé?

Are there benefits to the shape of the iconic Domain Ott bottles?

What are some of the wildest bottle Rosé designs Jens found in researching Rosé Revolution?

Why does Rasmus believe we’ll see more Rosé being sold in brown bottles in the future?

What role do ultra-premium Rosés play in the market?

Beyond great quality, what factors have made Whispering Angel so successful?

Key Takeaways

Rosé wine is made from red wine grapes, and it's the skin that gives color and tannin to the wine. If you let the wine ferment with the skin, you end up with a red wine. Rosé wine was produced as an afterthought, rather than with the intention to make it. This is part of why Rosé has had a bad reputation because it's been considered a byproduct.

Marcel Ott was fascinated by Rosé wine because he thought that this was a wine that had the taste of the grapes most precisely. Marcel Ott was the first one to choose the variety of grapes that gave the best Rosé, to position the vineyards in the best possible way to make good Rosé and to choose the harvest time with the ambition to make the best possible Rosé.

Grenache is a grape with thin skins and very little pigment so it brings little color to the wine. This is the kind of Rosé wine that is the most trendy these years. It’s pale, dry, crisp wine, what we call the Provence style. But also, Grenache has this natural sweetness that applies well to the Rosé wine category as well.

Rosé, with its beautiful colour in a transparent, creatively designed bottle, looks great on the shelves in the liquor store. It looks good on Instagram. And I think this is a part of the popularity of Rosé. At the same time, it's also a reason why the bad reputation of Rosé wine remains with some of the wine establishment. At the same time, it’s much easier to recycle brown glass than clear glass.

About Rasmus Emborg & Jens Honoré

Rasmus Emborg is a journalist who has worked in the media industry for over 25 years. He is the author of Beer Brothers (2019), about twin beer brewers Mikkel Borg-Bjergsø and Jeppe Jarnit-Bjergsø. He and his wife own a small vineyard in Provence. The grapes are mainly used for rosé wine, and the production takes place at a local cooperative.

Jens Honoré is a photographer who has worked in the advertising industry for 30 years. In 2018, he published A Place to Dream for SOS Children’s Villages, and in partnership with Jens Vilstrup, he published the book, Farewell to a Black/White World about the UN’s 2015 Sustainable Development Goals. He has also contributed to Building a Dream about LEGO owner Kjeld Kirks Kristiansen’s realization of LEGO House. In 2021, he published The Right to Food about homeless people’s relationship with food. Jens lives in New York and as a wine enthusiast, has followed the trend of increasing enthusiasm for rosé wine with great interest.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/336.

Why are major Champagne houses, like Taittinger and Pommery, spending millions of dollars to buy and plant vineyards in England? How did Brexit reshape the English wine industry, from barrels to picking grapes? Why does visiting the English wine country feel like uncovering a hidden secret?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Henry Jeffreys, author of Vines in a Cold Climate.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Three of you are going to win a copy of his terrific book, Vines in a Cold Climate. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at natalie@nataliemaclean.com and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

Is England's greatest wine yet to be discovered?

What makes Peter Hall of Breaky Bottom such a memorable and inspirational person?

What is it like to visit English wine regions as a tourist?

How can you make the most out of a trip to London as a wine lover?

What was the most surprising historical tidbit about English wine that Henry uncovered while researching?

Which significant milestones have signalled the improved quality of English wine in the past 20 years?

What makes English winemakers different from those from other regions?

If English wine is such a precarious venture, why have champagne houses like Tattinger and Pommery chosen to plant in England?

How did Brexit impact English winemakers?

What’s the biggest risk to the English wine industry?

Key Takeaways

Henry observes that Champagne is warming up and the concern is that eventually the grapes might not have enough acidity, so they're hedging their bets. He also thinks they are entrepreneurial. If you could bring your expertise and get it to work and make a great, great wine - which is what they're interested in - then, why not?

Brexit had a big impact on the English wine industry. There was a hell of a lot of upheaval, but I think generally the industry has adjusted and worked out how they can bring things in. The cost, obviously, has gone into the wines, and we probably have to pay more. But I think all the problems have already been dealt with. It's all kind of factored in.

Southern England, especially in the spring and summer, Henry says, is breathtakingly beautiful in a way that no other country is. There are beautiful little villages and hills and churches. It can be quite incongruous sometimes seeing the vines, especially if on a cold day when you’d expect to see horses and apple trees. Wine tourism is quite in its infancy at the moment, but it’s coming on strongly. A lot of wineries have realized that you can sell tourists wine without anyone taking a cut. So they’re beginning to take it a lot more seriously… have restaurants on site, really good tour guides. The potential is massive because most of the vineyards are within an hour and a half of London.

About Henry Jeffreys

Henry Jeffreys worked in the wine trade and publishing before becoming a writer. He’s a contributor to Good Food, The Guardian, Harpers Wine & Spirit, and The Spectator, wine columnist for The Critic magazine, and has appeared on radio, TV, and The Rest is History podcast. He won Fortnum & Mason Drink Writer of the Year in 2022 and is the author of four books, including Empire of Booze and Vines in a Cold Climate, which was shortlisted for the James Beard awards and won Fortnum & Mason drink book of the year. Along with Tom Parker Bowles, he hosts the Intoxicating History podcast. He lives in Faversham, Kent, with his wife and two daughters.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/335.

Is chalky soil really the secret to great English wine—or just clever marketing? What makes it so difficult for English wine to break into the North American market? Is it time for a classified system of English wine?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Henry Jeffreys, author of the award-winning book Vines in a Cold Climate.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Three of you are going to win a copy of his terrific book, Vines in a Cold Climate. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at natalie@nataliemaclean.com and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

How did Henry become a wine critic for The Lady, a women's magazine?

What was it light to interview wine pioneer Stuart Moss?

How did Henry’s skepticism about biodynamics nearly cause a problem with Gérard Bertrand?

What inspired Henry to write Empire of Booze?

What was the most surprising thing Henry learned while researching the book?

How did Henry’s first experience of English wine go?

What unusual vineyard experience totally changed his perception?

How much wine does England produce?

Where are the main wine regions in England?

Are the benefits of the chalky soils in certain parts of England overrated?

Is it time for a classified system of English wine?

Key Takeaways

We always hear about the chalk or the White Cliffs of Dover. Do you think that has an influence or is it overrated? Henry thinks it is overrated and it was the story that sold. It was a good marketing angle, and they thought that it was the best place. He thinks almost everything else is more important than whether it's chalk or clay, and once you've got everything else right, then you can argue about that.

Henry observes that selling to Canada and the US is quite complicated. If you sell to Japan, you can get just one person to import it. Whereas in North America you have complicated systems by state and province. You need somebody on the ground selling. Plus, Nova Scotia makes a similar style of sparkling wines. California has some pretty good sparkling wines. And then once the English bubblies land in the market, the price is pretty much the same as Champagne. Why would you unless you wanted something quite unusual, right?

Henry says that there is now a PDO, or Protected Designation of Origin, a European geographical indication for one county, which is Sussex. But it's really too early for it, because they've only been making quality wine there for 30 years. The appellation contrôlée is, ideally, codifying hundreds of years of tradition. Plus, a lot of producers buy from different counties. So Nyetimber will have vineyards in Kent and Sussex and Hampshire. So that makes a nonsense of it. And also, there's sort of bits of Sussex that are very much like Kent, so you so there's no point drawing a line where the old county barrier is. It's like, it'd be like, sort of cutting the Médoc in half. It doesn't really make any sense. I think the only place where it makes sense is Essex, because you've got the soil.

About Henry Jeffreys

Henry Jeffreys worked in the wine trade and publishing before becoming a writer. He’s a contributor to Good Food, The Guardian, Harpers Wine & Spirit, and The Spectator, wine columnist for The Critic magazine, and has appeared on radio, TV, and The Rest is History podcast. He won Fortnum & Mason Drink Writer of the Year in 2022 and is the author of four books, including Empire of Booze and Vines in a Cold Climate, which was shortlisted for the James Beard awards and won Fortnum & Mason drink book of the year. Along with Tom Parker Bowles, he hosts the Intoxicating History podcast. He lives in Faversham, Kent, with his wife and two daughters.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/334.