Dawn Walton, a human therapist, and Jess Probst, a dog behaviourist, sit outside Starbucks, in the sunshine, and discuss stress. Is it different from fear? How do we recognise a stressed state in dogs and humans, and how do we change it? They also discuss a series of videos that Dawn made, that Jess refers to as a ‘Me-Me’ which makes Dawn giggle every time. And of course, there is the normal meandering through topics

Dawn Walton, a human therapist, and Jess Probst, a dog behaviourist, sit in Dawn's car looking out over the River Tay in Dundee, and discuss stress.

What happens when a dog or a person is stressed? How does it affect Cognitive function and what can we do about it?

They explore the concept of behaviour coming from somewhere and how easy it is to fixate on the behaviour without understanding what is creating it.

They discuss why desensitisation and counter conditioning are limited in their effectiveness, in people and dogs.

And of course, as usual, there are the normal random topics, including the distraction of a group of 7 Jet Skis making their way down the Tay

Link to data on the effectiveness of Dawn's therapy approach vs CBT etc https://www.qchpa.com/evidence-based-therapy/

Dawn Walton, a human therapist, and Jess Probst, a dog behaviourist, return to their old patch in Starbucks to catch up on what has been happening in the last few weeks (Hint: it's a lot!)

They mainly talk about how the social landscape of dog ownership has changed over the last few years, and the knock on effect to dogs and their owners. Behaviour problems, particularly aggression, in dogs is getting worse and seems to be more and more normalised.

In 2020 there were around 9 million dogs in the UK. By 2022 that number shot up to 13 million. But by 2023 it had dropped to 12 million. Where did they all go? I think you can work out what happens when a new dog owner realises they no longer have a pet that fits in with their life.

Jess is on the coal face of this. Where dogs have been through multiple trainers and multiple homes. These dogs can't be rehomed. So what options are there for them?

Please note this episode is an informal conversation recorded in Starbucks so there is lots of background noise including children and chairs!