In this episode, Jessie Cruickshank sits down with evangelist and disciple-maker Mike Wiggin to talk about surrender, grace, and what it truly means to follow Jesus. Mike shares his powerful story of moving from legalism to life—how an encounter with grace changed everything—and why he’s passionate about helping people not just believe in Jesus, but actually surrender to Him.

Together, they unpack the difference between emotional experiences and true transformation, explore why so many church models miss the heart of discipleship, and introduce Mike’s Simple Communities and Hope Dealer Training—a movement helping ordinary believers multiply the gospel in everyday life.

It’s an honest, hopeful conversation about faith that costs something, community that sustains, and the beauty of a gospel that’s as simple as it is powerful.

Learn more:

• Mike Wiggin: x2networks.org

ORDER Jessie’s newest book, Ordinary Discipleship: How God Wires Us for the Adventure of Transformation → https://a.co/d/51j86DG

For more great stuff, check out: Ordinary Discipleship by Whoology: https://whoology.co

Follow us on social media:
https://instagram.com/ordinarydiscipleship
https://facebook.com/ordinarydiscipleship

Follow Jessie on social media:
Instagram: https://instagram.com/yourbrainbyjess
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jessica.s.cruickshank/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/yourbrainbyjess

ORDER Jessie’s newest book, Ordinary Discipleship: How God Wires Us for the Adventure of Transformation → https://a.co/d/51j86DG

For more great stuff, check out: Ordinary Discipleship by Whoology: https://whoology.co

Follow us on social media:
https://instagram.com/ordinarydiscipleship
https://facebook.com/ordinarydiscipleship

Follow Jessie on social media:
Instagram: https://instagram.com/yourbrainbyjess
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jessica.s.cruickshank/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/yourbrainbyjess

Jessie Cruickshank is a disciple-maker, wilderness guide, and ordained minister. She has trained thousands of people how to survive when their life depended on it and earned a Master’s degree in experiential education at Harvard to learn how the brain works to help people train more effectively.

The key to discipleship is not more information, but learning how to create intentional environments where people can learn and grow. By working with the brain and treating individuals as whole persons, you too can discover how God wired our brains for transformation. You already have all the tools you need, it is time to activate them in you and your church.

Discipleship isn’t a skill to master—it’s a story to be lived. In this episode, Chris, Jacob, and Jessie Cruickshank unpack why so many churches reduce discipleship to a series of classes or leadership pipelines, and how that misses the heart of transformation. Together they explore the difference between leadership training and true discipleship, why one-size-fits-all programs leave people behind, and how small relational communities can actually cultivate spiritual maturity.

From rethinking old church models to the importance of relationship, rupture and repair, and trusting the Holy Spirit in group settings, this conversation challenges us to see discipleship not as curriculum-driven but as a Spirit-led journey of rewriting our lives with Jesus.

If you’ve ever wondered how to move beyond programs into real transformation, this episode offers a hopeful vision for discipleship that is personal, relational, and rooted in story

ORDER Jessie’s newest book, Ordinary Discipleship: How God Wires Us for the Adventure of Transformation → https://a.co/d/51j86DG

For more great stuff, check out: Ordinary Discipleship by Whoology: https://whoology.co

Follow us on social media:
https://instagram.com/ordinarydiscipleship
https://facebook.com/ordinarydiscipleship

Follow Jessie on social media:
Instagram: https://instagram.com/yourbrainbyjess
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jessica.s.cruickshank/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/yourbrainbyjess

ORDER Jessie’s newest book, Ordinary Discipleship: How God Wires Us for the Adventure of Transformation → https://a.co/d/51j86DG

For more great stuff, check out: Ordinary Discipleship by Whoology: https://whoology.co

Follow us on social media:
https://instagram.com/ordinarydiscipleship
https://facebook.com/ordinarydiscipleship

Follow Jessie on social media:
Instagram: https://instagram.com/yourbrainbyjess
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jessica.s.cruickshank/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/yourbrainbyjess

Jessie Cruickshank is a disciple-maker, wilderness guide, and ordained minister. She has trained thousands of people how to survive when their life depended on it and earned a Master’s degree in experiential education at Harvard to learn how the brain works to help people train more effectively.

The key to discipleship is not more information, but learning how to create intentional environments where people can learn and grow. By working with the brain and treating individuals as whole persons, you too can discover how God wired our brains for transformation. You already have all the tools you need, it is time to activate them in you and your church.

In this episode of Ordinary Discipleship, Chris, Jacob, and Jessie Cruickshank dive into the vital practice of listening in discipleship. Too often, leaders rush to “fix” problems rather than truly hearing the heart of the person in front of them - or what the Holy Spirit might be saying in the moment.

The conversation explores:

• Why listening requires humility, presence, and discernment
• The danger of treating people as “projects” rather than unique children of God
• How giving away control creates space for spiritual and emotional maturity
• The role of differentiation in healthy relationships and leadership
• Why agency is essential for true discipleship growth

Whether you’re leading in the church, discipling a friend, or simply navigating relationships, this episode will challenge you to slow down, listen deeply, and trust the Spirit’s work in others.

ORDER Jessie’s newest book, Ordinary Discipleship: How God Wires Us for the Adventure of Transformation → https://a.co/d/51j86DG

For more great stuff, check out: Ordinary Discipleship by Whoology: https://whoology.co

Follow us on social media:
https://instagram.com/ordinarydiscipleship
https://facebook.com/ordinarydiscipleship

Follow Jessie on social media:
Instagram: https://instagram.com/yourbrainbyjess
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jessica.s.cruickshank/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/yourbrainbyjess

ORDER Jessie’s newest book, Ordinary Discipleship: How God Wires Us for the Adventure of Transformation → https://a.co/d/51j86DG

For more great stuff, check out: Ordinary Discipleship by Whoology: https://whoology.co

Follow us on social media:
https://instagram.com/ordinarydiscipleship
https://facebook.com/ordinarydiscipleship

Follow Jessie on social media:
Instagram: https://instagram.com/yourbrainbyjess
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jessica.s.cruickshank/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/yourbrainbyjess

Jessie Cruickshank is a disciple-maker, wilderness guide, and ordained minister. She has trained thousands of people how to survive when their life depended on it and earned a Master’s degree in experiential education at Harvard to learn how the brain works to help people train more effectively.

The key to discipleship is not more information, but learning how to create intentional environments where people can learn and grow. By working with the brain and treating individuals as whole persons, you too can discover how God wired our brains for transformation. You already have all the tools you need, it is time to activate them in you and your church.

Is real change possible, or are we just learning new ways to cope? In this episode of the Ordinary Discipleship Podcast, Chris, Jacob, and Jessie Cruickshank dive into the deep work of transformation through Jesus. Together they explore how discipleship is not about behavior modification or memorizing verses, but about being recreated by the Holy Spirit.

The conversation wrestles with the tension between brokenness and healing, how true repentance leads to change, and why many faith communities settle for coping mechanisms instead of trusting God for miracles. Jessie shares powerful stories of identity shifts, Jacob reflects on how brokenness precedes wholeness, and Chris tells of witnessing real transformation in the lives of ordinary people.

This conversation reminds us that discipleship is about surrender - letting Jesus take the wheel, even when it means revisiting pain, so that God can bring lasting change from the inside out.

ORDER Jessie’s newest book, Ordinary Discipleship: How God Wires Us for the Adventure of Transformation → https://a.co/d/51j86DG

For more great stuff, check out: Ordinary Discipleship by Whoology: https://whoology.co

Follow us on social media:
https://instagram.com/ordinarydiscipleship
https://facebook.com/ordinarydiscipleship

Follow Jessie on social media:
Instagram: https://instagram.com/yourbrainbyjess
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jessica.s.cruickshank/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/yourbrainbyjess

Jessie Cruickshank is a disciple-maker, wilderness guide, and ordained minister. She has trained thousands of people how to survive when their life depended on it and earned a Master’s degree in experiential education at Harvard to learn how the brain works to help people train more effectively.

ORDER Jessie’s newest book, Ordinary Discipleship: How God Wires Us for the Adventure of Transformation → https://a.co/d/51j86DG

For more great stuff, check out: Ordinary Discipleship by Whoology: https://whoology.co

Follow us on social media:
https://instagram.com/ordinarydiscipleship
https://facebook.com/ordinarydiscipleship

Follow Jessie on social media:
Instagram: https://instagram.com/yourbrainbyjess
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jessica.s.cruickshank/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/yourbrainbyjess

Jessie Cruickshank is a disciple-maker, wilderness guide, and ordained minister. She has trained thousands of people how to survive when their life depended on it and earned a Master’s degree in experiential education at Harvard to learn how the brain works to help people train more effectively.

The key to discipleship is not more information, but learning how to create intentional environments where people can learn and grow. By working with the brain and treating individuals as whole persons, you too can discover how God wired our brains for transformation. You already have all the tools you need, it is time to activate them in you and your church.

Relationships are messy and that’s by design. In this episode of the Ordinary Discipleship Podcast, Chris, Jacob, and Jessie dive into why conflict isn’t something to avoid but a key part of how God shapes us in community. From roller derby and MMA stories to real-life church leadership challenges, they unpack how healthy conflict can actually strengthen relationships, clarify communication, and deepen discipleship.

Together they explore:

• Why conflict doesn’t always come from sin but from being human
• How to engage disagreements in ways that lead to growth, not division
• The biblical framework of the fivefold ministry and the “messiness in the design”
• Practical ways to see the other person as a teammate instead of an enemy

If you’ve ever wrestled with conflict in your marriage, church, or community and wondered how to navigate it faithfully, this conversation offers both challenge and encouragement for the journey.

ORDER Jessie’s newest book, Ordinary Discipleship: How God Wires Us for the Adventure of Transformation → https://a.co/d/51j86DG

For more great stuff, check out: Ordinary Discipleship by Whoology: https://whoology.co

Follow us on social media:
https://instagram.com/ordinarydiscipleship
https://facebook.com/ordinarydiscipleship

Follow Jessie on social media:
Instagram: https://instagram.com/yourbrainbyjess
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jessica.s.cruickshank/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/yourbrainbyjess

Jessie Cruickshank is a disciple-maker, wilderness guide, and ordained minister. She has trained thousands of people how to survive when their life depended on it and earned a Master’s degree in experiential education at Harvard to learn how the brain works to help people train more effectively.

ORDER Jessie’s newest book, Ordinary Discipleship: How God Wires Us for the Adventure of Transformation → https://a.co/d/51j86DG

For more great stuff, check out: Ordinary Discipleship by Whoology: https://whoology.co

Follow us on social media:
https://instagram.com/ordinarydiscipleship
https://facebook.com/ordinarydiscipleship

Follow Jessie on social media:
Instagram: https://instagram.com/yourbrainbyjess
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jessica.s.cruickshank/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/yourbrainbyjess

Jessie Cruickshank is a disciple-maker, wilderness guide, and ordained minister. She has trained thousands of people how to survive when their life depended on it and earned a Master’s degree in experiential education at Harvard to learn how the brain works to help people train more effectively.

The key to discipleship is not more information, but learning how to create intentional environments where people can learn and grow. By working with the brain and treating individuals as whole persons, you too can discover how God wired our brains for transformation. You already have all the tools you need, it is time to activate them in you and your church.

So many of us have been handed a one-size-fits-all blueprint for connecting with God—quiet times at dawn, journaling in solitude, structured study. But what happens when that doesn’t work for you? Does that mean something’s wrong with you? Or with your faith?

In this episode, Chris, Jacob, and Jesse dive into the reality that not everyone connects with God in the same way—and that’s not just okay, it’s beautiful. Drawing from a framework of six spiritual pathways—contemplative, student, activist, experiential, aesthetic, and relational—they unpack how discipleship can become more about discovery than conformity. If you’ve ever felt like a spiritual misfit, this conversation might be the permission slip you didn’t know you needed. It’s honest, practical, and full of grace for the diverse ways we hear from and walk with God.

ORDER Jessie’s newest book, Ordinary Discipleship: How God Wires Us for the Adventure of Transformation → https://a.co/d/51j86DG

For more great stuff, check out: Ordinary Discipleship by Whoology: https://whoology.co

Follow us on social media:
https://instagram.com/ordinarydiscipleship
https://facebook.com/ordinarydiscipleship

Follow Jessie on social media:
Instagram: https://instagram.com/yourbrainbyjess
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jessica.s.cruickshank/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/yourbrainbyjess

Jessie Cruickshank is a disciple-maker, wilderness guide, and ordained minister. She has trained thousands of people how to survive when their life depended on it and earned a Master’s degree in experiential education at Harvard to learn how the brain works to help people train more effectively.

ORDER Jessie’s newest book, Ordinary Discipleship: How God Wires Us for the Adventure of Transformation → https://a.co/d/51j86DG

For more great stuff, check out: Ordinary Discipleship by Whoology: https://whoology.co

Follow us on social media:
https://instagram.com/ordinarydiscipleship
https://facebook.com/ordinarydiscipleship

Follow Jessie on social media:
Instagram: https://instagram.com/yourbrainbyjess
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jessica.s.cruickshank/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/yourbrainbyjess

Jessie Cruickshank is a disciple-maker, wilderness guide, and ordained minister. She has trained thousands of people how to survive when their life depended on it and earned a Master’s degree in experiential education at Harvard to learn how the brain works to help people train more effectively.

The key to discipleship is not more information, but learning how to create intentional environments where people can learn and grow. By working with the brain and treating individuals as whole persons, you too can discover how God wired our brains for transformation. You already have all the tools you need, it is time to activate them in you and your church.

What does it really mean to grow as a disciple of Jesus and are we starting in the right place? In this episode, Chris, Jacob, and Jessie Cruickshank unpack the “Five Cs” of discipleship: Christ, Community, Character, Calling, and Competency. Together, they explore why starting with a skills assessment or plugging people into ministry roles based on talent can short-circuit the deeper work of identity formation in Christ.

Jessie draws from neuroscience, her experience training church leaders, and even jellyfish biology (yes, really!) to help us reimagine discipleship as a relational, community-driven journey of becoming. Character is shaped in community, calling is discerned in relationship, and competency should be the last step, not the first.

ORDER Jessie’s newest book, Ordinary Discipleship: How God Wires Us for the Adventure of Transformation → https://a.co/d/51j86DG

For more great stuff, check out: Ordinary Discipleship by Whoology: https://whoology.co

Follow us on social media:
https://instagram.com/ordinarydiscipleship
https://facebook.com/ordinarydiscipleship

Follow Jessie on social media:
Instagram: https://instagram.com/yourbrainbyjess
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jessica.s.cruickshank/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/yourbrainbyjess

Jessie Cruickshank is a disciple-maker, wilderness guide, and ordained minister. She has trained thousands of people how to survive when their life depended on it and earned a Master’s degree in experiential education at Harvard to learn how the brain works to help people train more effectively.

The key to discipleship is not more information, but learning how to create intentional environments where people can learn and grow. By working with the brain and treating individuals as whole persons, you too can discover how God wired our brains for transformation. You already have all the tools you need, it is time to activate them in you and your church.

ORDER Jessie’s newest book, Ordinary Discipleship: How God Wires Us for the Adventure of Transformation → https://a.co/d/51j86DG

For more great stuff, check out: Ordinary Discipleship by Whoology: https://whoology.co

Follow us on social media:
https://instagram.com/ordinarydiscipleship
https://facebook.com/ordinarydiscipleship

Follow Jessie on social media:
Instagram: https://instagram.com/yourbrainbyjess
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jessica.s.cruickshank/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/yourbrainbyjess

Jessie Cruickshank is a disciple-maker, wilderness guide, and ordained minister. She has trained thousands of people how to survive when their life depended on it and earned a Master’s degree in experiential education at Harvard to learn how the brain works to help people train more effectively.

The key to discipleship is not more information, but learning how to create intentional environments where people can learn and grow. By working with the brain and treating individuals as whole persons, you too can discover how God wired our brains for transformation. You already have all the tools you need, it is time to activate them in you and your church.

When is it time to speak up and when is it wiser to stay silent? In this episode of Ordinary Discipleship, Chris, Jacob, and Jessie dive into the tension we all feel in relationships, ministry, and daily life: knowing when and how to bring something up. Jessie shares a powerful framework rooted in four key questions - Do I have God's eyes, heart, tone, and timing? - and how it radically reshaped her leadership and interactions. Together, they explore how to align with the Holy Spirit, navigate conflict with grace, and avoid becoming the self-appointed “fixer” in someone else’s story.

ORDER Jessie’s newest book, Ordinary Discipleship: How God Wires Us for the Adventure of Transformation → https://a.co/d/51j86DG

For more great stuff, check out: Ordinary Discipleship by Whoology: https://whoology.co

Follow us on social media:
https://instagram.com/ordinarydiscipleship
https://facebook.com/ordinarydiscipleship

Follow Jessie on social media:
Instagram: https://instagram.com/yourbrainbyjess
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jessica.s.cruickshank/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/yourbrainbyjess

Jessie Cruickshank is a disciple-maker, wilderness guide, and ordained minister. She has trained thousands of people how to survive when their life depended on it and earned a Master’s degree in experiential education at Harvard to learn how the brain works to help people train more effectively.

The key to discipleship is not more information, but learning how to create intentional environments where people can learn and grow. By working with the brain and treating individuals as whole persons, you too can discover how God wired our brains for transformation. You already have all the tools you need, it is time to activate them in you and your church.

ORDER Jessie’s newest book, Ordinary Discipleship: How God Wires Us for the Adventure of Transformation → https://a.co/d/51j86DG

For more great stuff, check out: Ordinary Discipleship by Whoology: https://whoology.co

Follow us on social media:
https://instagram.com/ordinarydiscipleship
https://facebook.com/ordinarydiscipleship

Follow Jessie on social media:
Instagram: https://instagram.com/yourbrainbyjess
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jessica.s.cruickshank/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/yourbrainbyjess

Jessie Cruickshank is a disciple-maker, wilderness guide, and ordained minister. She has trained thousands of people how to survive when their life depended on it and earned a Master’s degree in experiential education at Harvard to learn how the brain works to help people train more effectively.

The key to discipleship is not more information, but learning how to create intentional environments where people can learn and grow. By working with the brain and treating individuals as whole persons, you too can discover how God wired our brains for transformation. You already have all the tools you need, it is time to activate them in you and your church.